My New Pair (of budgies)

[weelouie]

I talked to three breeders, but in the end I went with the first breeder I spoke with. I went to see his birds today and they all appeared to be in good health, active, good feather - though they were all in a relatively small cage together. He jokingly called the ones with the biggest heads "buffalo heads". He was able to tell me which pairs had bred and how they were as parents. The birds were all close banded, most were 2015 but there were a couple of 2014's as well. He said the only reason he's selling his birds off is because he has to move and can't take them with him.

I asked him a bunch of questions, like how long he'd had the birds, who he got them from (another breeder in the next town west of me, he gave me their contact info) and what he was feeding them with. We talked about what to look for in good breeding stock and he seemed knowledgeable about which birds to pair with which and why. It was hard to make a choice because he had birds of a variety of colours and they all looked good. But in the end, I chose a pair that I liked the overall look of, and he had told me they were good parents, especially the father who's very good about feeding the hen and chicks. They are both 2015's. 

My only concern is that the hen looks rather chubby to me, and her tail bobs as she breathes. There's no squeaking or sound as she breathes. I felt for her breastbone as I moved her into her new cage, yup, it was hard to find. I'm familiar with this after 11 years of fighting obesity with an African Grey. The cock does not have the same symptom and he looks more trim. The good news is that they have a big flight cage to themselves now, so maybe once she's more active she'll lose the weight. Here are some pics taken in the carry cage, I think you can see her breast is noticeably bigger than his: 

[Shirls]

Are you able to weigh the birdies weelouie? Exhibition birds as you know will be a little on the large side and do vary in weights, it really depends on her actual size, but flying will trim her down a bit I'm sure.

The tail bobbing is not a good sign, but if she has no breathing problems it may just be she is stressing about the move. Fingers crossed thats all it is, but keep an eye on her.

They do look a lovely couple.

[samwiseg]

They do look a very handsome pair! But would advise you to keep them calm perhaps put a cover over the back as if it the cage is open on all sides it might make them a tad inescure

Also, do you have any Guardian Angel? I think I remember you saying you were from Canada am I right?

If so you might be able to get Guardian Angel online here for sick or stressed birds. In my experience its great to give birds for when they have had a move to a new home

[weelouie]

Oct 31, 2016 8:17:03 GMT Shirls said:

Are you able to weigh the birdies weelouie ? Exhibition birds as you know will be a little on the large side and do vary in weights, it really depends on her actual size, but flying will trim her down a bit I'm sure.

The tail bobbing is not a good sign, but if she has no breathing problems it may just be she is stressing about the move. Fingers crossed thats all it is, but keep an eye on her.

They do look a lovely couple.

I actually have two scales, one is a standard kitchen scale and the other is a more accurate scale (measures to .001 grams) which I use to weigh my crested geckos. I use the "tare" feature and put the animals in an appropriate container to weigh them. Since I have no idea what a normal weight for an English budgie would be, I guess all I could measure is change in weight. 

She is still tail bobbing, now the male is doing it a bit too. However, they have very good reason to tail bob after last night. I heard a huge crash in the living room at 4 am. I hang my cages on the wall using coat hooks, close to the ceilings, and with nothing beneath that the cats could use as a launch pad. When I arrived I found the cage torn down off the wall, lying on its "back" with all doors facing up and open, no birds in sight, just a couple of tail feathers on the floor. Nearby on the floor was the hood of the large fish tank, which was around a corner from the cage, but they still managed to use it as a launch pad. There was a wet cat and puddle on the floor, so the culprit got their comeuppance. Of course I feared the worst, but I hunted high and low for the birds, expecting to find corpses or gravely injured birds. Miraculously, I found both birds alive and clinging to the inside mesh of the dogs' pen, with the dogs ignoring them. One of the dogs barks at the cats if they come near the pen. Had the birds ended up anywhere else, the outcome would have been a lot different.  

So for the time being their cage is in the closed "no cats allowed" bedroom. It's quiet in there, other than occasional calls from the button quail and parrotlet. I saw the cock eating seed this morning, and I looked both of them over for any sign of injury. The hen is missing a couple of moustache feathers, but other than that they seem OK. 

I will try to find some Guardian Angel online, since I highly doubt the local pet stores would carry it. Even a local parrot store doesn't have it. In the meantime I'm tossed up about whether I should give them some Perle Morbide. It's a food that's equivalent to sprouted seeds, and can be mixed with eggfood or supplements. It's normally used for birds who are breeding or moulting or who need a nutritional "boost". I'm not sure if it would be a good idea for overweight birds, I'll have to look that up. 

[weelouie]

Oct 31, 2016 8:53:52 GMT samwiseg said:

They do look a very handsome pair! But would advise you to keep them calm perhaps put a cover over the back as if it the cage is open on all sides it might make them a tad inescure

I took those pics when they were in their small travel cage, just before moving them to their permanent cage. I always install cages against at least one wall and preferably in a corner. I buy rectangular flight cages. I hang them from sturdy hooks on the wall, as close to the ceiling as possible. If a corner is not available I use sheets of Coroplast to cover one side of the cage, this (theoretically) also protects the cage from cats leaping up from the floor and hooking their claws in the cage bars so they can climb up. It doesn't always work - last night they used a fish tank that was around a corner from the cage, to leap up and rip the cage down from the wall (see my other post). I didn't think they could do that, since they normally avoid the tank because of the water. I also made the mistake of using two Coroplast sheets instead of one big one, and I think they managed to hook their claws in the seam between the two sheets. 

[jellybean]

I wouldn't have cats and budgies in the same room, in fact I wouldnt even have cats and budgies in the same house. Even if the birds cages are hung from the ceiling. A bird even seeing a cat in the same room would be enough to stress it out.

[samwiseg]

I'm afraid I agree with JellyBean weelouie cats and birds do not mix and it can really stress a bird out, is there any other way to have your birds or cats separately?

[Shirls]

So sorry to hear what happened weelouie. How do the birds seem now - it must have really frightened them both? I think they will definitely benefit now from Guardian Angel after the shock of the move and now this, if you can get it.

I agree with jellybean and samwiseg - cats and birds are really not a good mix.

[weelouie]

Re how the birds are doing - the male stopped tail bobbing early yesterday and seems fine now. The hen stayed on a high perch at the back of their cage yesterday. When I checked today she was on the perch at the front of the cage and seemed more animated, also there was more seed missing from their dish. Her tail is still bobbing, but not as much. There are no more wheezing or breathing sounds.

I ordered Guardian Angel yesterday and it should arrive within a few days. I also ordered an iodine mineral block, as I read that breathing problems can be caused by a swollen thyroid due to iodine deficiency. I'm looking for mite drops but I'm having a hard time, as they are difficult to find in Canada and outrageously expensive to order from overseas.

Re cats and birds - I understand your concerns, and they are valid. When I was growing up we always had cats, and we always had birds. Keeping cats and birds in the same home requires a lot of careful planning. Bird cages were always hung out of reach of cats. We would hang them from the ceiling using a pulley, so that the cage could be lowered for maintenance. When the birds came out to fly, the cats would be shut away first. With larger parrots, cats seemed to know the difference and left them alone. I had an African Grey for 11 years and the cats were terrified of him. He could walk around the floor (he refused to fly) and they'd watch him but kept their distance. If they annoyed him, he'd emit a loud belch, or tell them (in my voice) "GET DOWN!" (He was always closely supervised when out of his cage). Whenever I have to clean bird cages etc., the cats get shut in the bathroom as a precaution.

I have two cages hung up in the living room now. My canary has been here for over two years, his cage is in a corner near the ceiling where the cats can't reach. They have stopped trying, and if he makes noise, they ignore him. The same goes for Budgie City. It's up at the ceiling in another corner. The top is protected by the ceiling, one side faces a wall and I covered the other side with a big sheet of Coroplast. The only exposed side is the front of the cage. The closest perch that the cats can use to see the cage is 8 feet away (I measured it). When I first adopted the budgies, the cats would line up along the perch and watch them. Now the cats consider them "background noise" and ignore them unless there's a huge commotion in the cage. I only keep birds in the living room if they are not tame and in large flight cages to allow them to exercise.

I also have a parrotlet, he's tame and needs his playtime out of the cage every day. Parrotlets are busy little birds who can occasionally be noisy. The cats were very intent on watching him and his antics. I keep him in my bedroom, which is strictly off limits to cats. I go in there for a couple of hours a day to let him have his out of cage time.

I don't *recommend* keeping cats with birds; it's possible, but a lot more work and care. But over the years I've only had one casualty, which was my fault because I pulled a food dish out of a cage with a drop-down door and didn't check to make sure the door was fully closed. Now I put coloured hair clips on the doors so I can see at a glance, and they prevent the doors from being opened from the inside. When I got the two new budgies, I should have put the cage in the bedroom that evening and left it there, at least until the birds had time to settle in. That's what I'm doing now. There's a good chance I will keep it there permanently.