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Post by silascrutherton on Mar 20, 2018 17:41:30 GMT
Hello everyone!
My son and I have a couple of budiges - Link, a male, and Zeke, a female. They are about 2 1/2 years old or so.
It was getting a little cold in his room at night, so he was worried about them. To help, he went to the pet store and bought one of those "cuddle caves" or whatever they are called - a little fabric hut that you hang from the top of the cage.
Well, Zeke went into the hut and promptly built a nest. A while later and we now have three eggs.
We candled one of them when momma was out for a minute and we have at least one little budgie coming!
We're kind of excited. My son (15 years old) is pretty excited for this. If we had a guess, they will start hatching sometime toward the end of next week.
Here's where my concerns come in...
First of all, the hut is pretty small - we didn't expect her to nest in it. I'm worried about them having enough room when the budgies start growing. I have come up with several ideas about how to fix it, but the most likely one would be to wait until Zeke gets off of the eggs, take down the hut, cut the top off of it, and place it on the ground. However, I worry about Zeke getting mad about the whole business and leaving the babies. My readings say that this is a possibility.
My son is also VERY interested in hand raising them - waiting until they are old enough and then removing them anyway to hand feed them. Whether it is because of this, or because momma abandons them, I would like to be ready to have a home for them.
So question 2...if we were to do this, what is the setup that we would need? I know that we would have to have something that would keep them warmer than just room temperature. We have seen at a pet store where they hand feed parakeets and conures a setup where for a few weeks they have the birds in a 10 gallon fish tank with paper towels in the bottom and a screen over the top, and a lamp providing heat. Is this the type of setup that we would want to go for?
As a final note, we have nothing set in stone - I'm just gathering information to find out what options we have so that we can be ready when the little chicks arrive.
Thanks!
Silas
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Post by Hezz on Mar 20, 2018 19:38:37 GMT
If your room is warm enough for you, it is warm enough for the birds - a lesson for next time. They do not need a place to sleep; all you have given them is a place to nest, which they have done. In the same vein, the chicks will get their warmth from mum; that's mum's job. Please don't encourage your son to hand raise the chicks, it isn't necessary. Budgie chicks will become very tame without needing to remove them from the hen, with general day-to-day handling, while cleaning, etc. My opinion is that hand raised budgies tend to be more needy characters than those raised by the parents.
If your hen is tame, you should be able to remove the "family" into a nest box without her abandoning the chicks, but I would like a second opinion on that. What you could possibly do for starters is take down the hut and cut it down to a concave and put it straight into the nest box .... it should work. That is what you need, though, a nest box. And some hand raising formula, but only in case the hen doesn't feed the chicks when/if they hatch.
You will need to watch that they don't start a second clutch before the first is ready to vacate the premises, but that is probably getting ahead of ourselves.
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Post by clt80 on Mar 20, 2018 20:40:15 GMT
Please let the mum raise and feed the chicks, it can be a risky time until they are fully fledged and I'm sure you want them to have the best chance. You and your son will get a lot of enjoyment watching them grow and in time become independent. Have the parents got a good diet? Extra vitamins and calcium etc? The breeding will take a lot out of the hen health wise and she needs every bit of goodness you can feed her. Looking forward to when the eggs hatch please keep us updated.
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Dec 10, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
GG
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 27
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Post by GG on Mar 21, 2018 0:23:04 GMT
I agree with the opinions offered regarding hand raising. I've hand raised chicks over the years when they were abandoned or there was a mishap or problem with the parent/parents, but it's a huge risk. As has been mentioned, handling and interacting with the chicks, but leaving their parents in charge of their care, gives you tame birds, and many of the same joys of hand raising as you can closely observe the chicks' day-to-day development (especially with the cage right in your son's room), all while ensuring the chicks receive all the care they need. Best of luck to you, your son, and burgeoning budgie family! Edited to add more info hoping to help answer your questions: Personally, I do not like using a light for heat. Nests are dark, and that dark environment is what chicks' developing eyes are made for, so to me it seems really unnatural to use light as a heat source. Some people opt for a heating pad under an aquarium, but to me that's just asking for burned chicks as heating pads are notorious for fluctuating temperatures. My preferred method (apart from a commercial brooder) is something like this do-it-yourself brooder as heating the water surrounding the container helps even out any temperature fluctuations. Any brooder you use should go through a test run of at least a week with regular monitoring to be sure it maintains a constant temperature before it is used for any chicks. Feeding a budgie chick is very different from feeding a larger chick. As a vet tech to an exotic animal veterinarian, I've fed chicks from Zebra finches to cockatoos, and feeding a larger chick has far fewer challenges -- the obvious being their size and possibility of choking them, but the most frustrating being the tiny amount of food a tiny chick takes in. Keeping that tiny amount of food at the right temperature to feed so it's not so hot it scalds a hungry chick and isn't so cold it reduces their body temperature or shuts down their digestion is 99% of the work involved in feeding. It's manageable, but it takes constant adjustments and monitoring of the formula temperature, and feeding a tiny chick a tiny amount adds to the difficulties. I view hand raising as a last-ditch effort to save a chick that would otherwise perish. It's not a necessary part of raising a bird who trusts and bonds with humans -- that can be accomplished through interacting with chicks while they're under their parents' care. I'd choose leaving chicks with their parents 999 times out of 1,000.
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Post by silascrutherton on Mar 21, 2018 18:42:31 GMT
Thank you all for your awesome responses. Based on what you are telling me, it sounds as if we are going to go the hand taming route separate from the feeding. I think you're probably right about feeding them being a last resort.
I'm going to talk with my son about what we want to do moving forward. More questions though...
Zeke is not very tame. I mean she knows us a bit, but she is still quite shy and isn't hand tame. So my question about moving things is still a question for me - do we move things?
About a nesting box - Their cage isn't really set up to be able to use one. (As I said, we weren't expecting babies). Is there something that we can put on the bottom of the cage that might work? The hole into the cage isn't all that large.
Thoughts?
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Dec 10, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
GG
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 27
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Post by GG on Mar 21, 2018 18:45:27 GMT
Would it be possible to post a couple pictures of the cage and the current cozy she's nesting in? Seeing the current set up might help us help you think through some creative solutions.
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Post by Hezz on Mar 22, 2018 1:24:56 GMT
GG's request for photos is what I was going to ask for as well. Is Zeke a calm little hen, or of the nervy sort? That might help decide on moving them all. You can put a nest box on the floor of the cage. It is not perfect but better than nothing and should work, as long as you have the cage up at a reasonable height. GG, any experience with moving an egg-family?
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Dec 10, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
GG
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 27
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Post by GG on Mar 22, 2018 3:59:24 GMT
Yes, but unfortunately in my experience moving often has bad results - not always, but often. It really depends on the hen. It might also depend on whether the pair is used to a lot of changes in their cage furnishings, or if their set up has been the same while they've lived in it. Finding the most natural transition possible helps, but it sounds like there's not much time. Even introducing a new toy or perch, I prefer to leave it outside near a cage for a time to let the birds look at it and explore it by coming to it before I add it to their territory, but with hatching expected soon, there's not a lot of time. I'd like to get a look at the cozy as perhaps it would be best to leave her in it until the chicks are hatched and a bit on their way. Hopefully, we can all work together to come up with some good ideas for a solution for this budgie family and their human family too. So many variables, but we're all pulling for you Silas and son!
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Dec 10, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
GG
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 27
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Post by GG on Mar 22, 2018 14:26:38 GMT
I'm wondering if there would be a way to rehang the cozy (next time Zeke comes out for her brief break) on a long --something not chewable (help me out here with ideas)-- hanging it in the same location now, but then you could slowly lower the cozy to the floor of the cage. By slowly I mean a little bit every day lowering it over days or even a week or however long it takes to get there without disturbing them while keeping its shape and opening about the same. Then you could provide an alternate hide/box/shelter for when the chicks are bursting out of the cozy. Get the alternate hide/box/shelter arranged now and put it in your son's room near the cage, putting it nearer the cage in stages so they can look at it and get used to it being near them.
Does that idea spark any other/better ideas?
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Post by silascrutherton on Mar 22, 2018 18:43:12 GMT
Thanks again for further advice. Zeke is rather high strung, hence my worries about moving her and the eggs.
I will endeavor to get some pics tonight to post so that you can see their setup.
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Post by Hezz on Mar 23, 2018 0:43:48 GMT
I have not heard many good stories of moving eggs and hen unless the hen is calm and quiet, either. silascrutherton, are these birds suspicious of new things being added to their cage? Without having seen what we are dealing with, I'm thinking along the lines of a large deep bowl hung up under the cozy hut, so that the cozy sits on the bottom of the bowl ... a bit like a bird feeder, but deeper. If the cozy is too far off the floor of the cage, the chicks could hurt themselves if they did try to venture out, so lowering the "nest" is definitely going to be needed, once the chicks hatch. Some other form of hidey hole is going to be needed, regardless, if the chicks survive, even if it is only a tissue box with a hole cut into the side.
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Post by silascrutherton on Mar 23, 2018 18:49:31 GMT
OK, so it's a little later than I would like, but here's a picture of their home: Zeke is the blue with the white face, and Link is on the side of the cage, blue with the yellow face. I'm open to pretty much any suggestion at this point. Hezz, you were mentioning something about a kleenex box with a hole cut in the side? I think that would be doable when the babies hatch. Thanks everyone, I feel as if you are giving us some great advice. -Silas Edited to add: Hezz, yes, these birds are fairly suspicious of new things in the cage. They do get used to them, but for the first little bit they can be edgy.
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Post by silascrutherton on Mar 23, 2018 18:55:36 GMT
GG, I just re-read some of your advice, and I think it's great. I would like to find something - whether a kleenex box or something else, and set it up right next to their cage for the next few days, and then try introducing it to the bottom of the cage after that.
Question about why we should wait until the chicks hatch - if they do...
Is this because a loud baby chick is hard for momma to ignore, whereas if you move the eggs she might not want anything to do with them?
For everyone:
We have considered taking the cozy down and chopping the top off of it, and setting it on the floor. It might be a bit hard, it's actually pretty well built, but at least they'd be on the ground. Thoughts about this? If yes, before/after the chicks hatch?
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Dec 10, 2016 18:05:16 GMT
GG
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 27
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Post by GG on Mar 23, 2018 23:43:07 GMT
Thanks for the pictures! That cozy is better constructed than I expected. I was picturing a horizontal fabric tube with one end closed, one end open, and wandering chicks falling out the front. They begin moving around soon after hatching - before their eyes are open - and usually back up quickly and energetically to defecate, and I was picturing a disaster with chicks falling to the floor of the cage. I think I'd still try to rig a way to slowly, incrementally, from the outside of the cage, lower the cozy to the floor to try and prevent a chick fall.
I suppose I recommended waiting because that's what I'd do this close to hatching. If a hen abandoned partially-developed eggs, there's really no way I could save the chicks inside, and they'd be lost. If a hen abandoned hatched chicks she and her mate had gotten going with a strong start, I'd at least have a way to try to save the chicks by feeding them, and might even succeed.
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Post by Hezz on Mar 24, 2018 0:44:51 GMT
I agree with GG's post. The cozy is bigger and better made that I expected as well, and the hole into it is raised a little from the base of the hut, which will help keeps chicks in in the beginning. As it is, I wouldn't cut bits off it at all, but try to find a way, as GG has suggested, of bringing it down gradually towards the floor of the cage.
I wouldn't disturb the hen at this stage, either. Once the chick(s) is/are hatched, then you will know what, and how many you are working with. Hopefully you will have a budgie family to think about, but if the chicks don't make it .... like the old saying "never count your chickens before they are hatched".
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