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Post by Hezz on Apr 4, 2018 4:52:08 GMT
Glad Zeke and Link are coping with the changes to their cage, and it sounds as though Link is being both a good dad and a good friend. As long as Zeke doesn't get cranky with him for feeding another.
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 4, 2018 14:05:55 GMT
Another update... Zeke is still skittish, she doesn't like me being around, but in general I think that she is (while left alone) taking care of the babies. They keep cheeping, so that's a good sign. Link is a great little dude - he just goes about his business. I don't think Zeke is getting mad at him feeding Percy. She's generally cranky anyway, so not much has changed. More to come!
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Post by clt80 on Apr 4, 2018 18:53:54 GMT
Exciting times
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Post by Hezz on Apr 5, 2018 1:03:35 GMT
Fingers crossed that it all works out for you and the buds.
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 6, 2018 14:33:54 GMT
Hey everyone!
So some good news, and another question...
Zeke has returned to running to protect the babies when I come in the room. They are getting big! The youngest is a week old today, the oldest 10 days. I didn't see, because Momma went and sat on them, but my son tells me that the oldest's eyes are opening. Very exciting! He said that the largest appeared to want to get out of the cozy as well, and Momma was shooing him back in. Makes me even more glad that we lowered their home to the ground.
The issue that we are having is that the little cozy where the babies are seems to be getting a little smelly. Go figure - they are sitting in there with nowhere for their poop to go.
So how big of a problem is this? I suppose they can always be washed later and all of that, and once the babies are old enough I'm throwing the cozy away, but in the meantime I'm a little worried about them getting sick in there.
If this is a problem...how soon can we move them out and into something else?
Any thoughts?
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Post by clt80 on Apr 6, 2018 21:04:28 GMT
The nest will need to be cleanes if possible, you'd be amazed how quick the poop mounts up!
Plus you don't want infection or splayed legs which it can cause.
I use to pop a piece of tissue in thr entrance when my hen came out to eat then open the nest box end to clean it. I'd take this opportunity to gentle place the chicks in a little Tupperware box with a towel in to check them (legs, beaks etc) quickly clean the nest, put them back and take the tissue out so the hen could go back in.
I'm not sure how you can do this with a cosy thing. Maybe put a little box with straw or a towel in the cage and if your hen comes out see if you can move the chicks to the temporary box so you can clean the cosy then put them back.
It's difficult as you have to find the balance of not stressing the he but also being able to check the chicks and keep their environment clean.
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Post by Hezz on Apr 7, 2018 0:38:15 GMT
Are you able to lift everything up and put down some paper towel, then put the 'nest' back down on top of the towel?? Normally there would be a concave in the bottom of the nest box, which helps keep the chicks in, the nesting material in and also helps give the chicks legs, purchase and thus prevents them from splaying out and the hips fusing in that position. Often people will have two concaves and swap them over quickly so that the one in use can be cleaned. I'm only explaining what would normally happen so that you might be able to find a solution to your problems, knowing what you need to be working towards, knowing what the chicks need. For the time being I would keep them in the hut (seems like Zeke is being a good mum) but try to find solutions to keeping them as clean as possible. As clt80 has said, you need to be checking their beaks for food build-up (inside and out) and their feet for dried on poop and their stance for splayed hips. Something that can be easily slipped into and out of the hut each time is what I see you needing to find. The longer you can leave them in the hut without risking the chicks being abandoned, the better obviously. If you can find a way around keeping them clean and Zeke doing her job, congratulations, but you can only do your best.
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 9, 2018 14:46:10 GMT
Thanks guys for the advice. The little chicks are getting big now! The oldest will be two weeks hatched tomorrow. Zeke has stopped running from me when I walk in to running for the chicks again. She's doing awesome.
I am finding that they may be doing something themselves - they are starting to move around more and more. They still keep huddled together, but I will find them in different ends of the hut. Honestly it is smelling less and less, which makes me wonder what is going on.
About cleaning them...
I see your point about putting a tissue in the entrance and going in the back of the nesting box sounds awesome - but in this case there is only a single entrance. Honestly I am VERY reticent to pull these chicks out right now. There's no way to do it without momma seeing or keeping her away. I keep wondering if I should basically build a new nest box in the back of the cage - a tissue box or something - and just transfer them. It would also give the chicks a way to start venturing out if they want to. Right now I think they don't have the ability to get out of the nest. The lip of the doorway is too big. Though I don't know when it's important for them to be able to start getting out.
Lots of worries...but so far they are making great progress!
Thanks again for your advice, and anything you can tell me would be appreciated.
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Post by clt80 on Apr 9, 2018 16:31:12 GMT
With regards to venturing out, it's a bit soon if the eldest is only 2 weeks old. Mine didn't start to explore outside the nest until 4-6 weeks.
I'm not sure how big the lip of the entrance is, but once they are a bit older they will start clambering and climbing about and I'm sure they will be able to get out. They will even climb over each other!!
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Post by Hezz on Apr 9, 2018 20:01:29 GMT
At two weeks, they are too young to be leaving the nest, definitely. A bit does depend on the natures of the chicks, as some are more adventurous and will be looking to get out while others more timid and are happy to stay inside with mum for longer, in which case it might not even be the oldest chick who does venture out first. There is a reason why the entrance of nest boxes are set up a little - so that the chicks don't fall out, but also to make sure that they are mature enough, and developed enough when they do come out. As long as the chicks seem healthy when you check them and the nest doesn't seem too stinky or clogged up with poo, I suppose leave them be. I do think, though, that by now Zeke will be used to you and be bonded with her chicks enough not to abandon them if you go in and change their paper. It is also possible that Zeke and/or Link are picking up the chicks' poop and removing it, themselves. No one comes along and cleans out the hollow tree for the budgies in their native environment; I think sometimes we are inclined to interfere too much. How many chicks did you end up with?
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 9, 2018 21:07:08 GMT
Hezz, We ended up with three chicks - the eggs were three for three. It's interesting how easily we can tell the three apart - the first hatched is bigger than the second, and the third smaller than the other two. They all appear to be growing, though, so I'm not too worried. About checking them... We have yet to do any checking other than looking in on them. Zeke is a nervous hen, as we've stated - she isn't hand tamed, nor is Link. She is seeming rather protective of them, which is good. The hole where we can peek in isn't that big - somewhere on the order of 3-4 inches or so. And it's pretty dark in there. I have tried shining a little light in sometimes, but I don't want too much brightness to hurt their poor little eyes - I've read that especially brand new chicks can be very sensitive to light. Am I reading correctly that we should be reaching in to check on the chicks? Looking at their beaks/crops/feet etc? Up until now we have just been letting Momma take care of them. The only thing we've really done is to pull out one of the eggs to candle it on the day that we think the third egg was laid. Other than lowering the cozy we haven't done any reaching in at all. But if we need to, we can try pulling one out - carefully! to check it out. Is this what we should be doing? Zeke really does seem to be attentive. When the chicks start complaining she goes and feeds/covers/warms/whatever they need. As it stands I don't have any worries about Zeke abandoning them, at least if we leave things as they are. We are wanting to (when it's the right time) start getting them out and handling them so that they are used to us, but we'd rather err on the side of safety for the chicks. Thoughts?
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Post by Hezz on Apr 10, 2018 6:56:31 GMT
If were me .... I would take my direction from how Zeke reacts. If you go into the cage and put your hand near her nest, what does she do? Does she hiss and attack, fly off frightened and get as far away as possible, or move out of reach but keep a wary eye on what you are doing? You don't want to scare the poor girl, and you don't want her to feel threatened. It is hard to advise without seeing for oneself how she behaves. She would and should be agitated by seeing you seemingly removing her chicks, but it is the extent of her agitation that is the worry. At this late stage, you don't really need to be checking their crops, as they wouldn't have survived if they weren't being fed. If you do touch them and check them now, you would need to be sure that Zeke has gone back to them. I'd handle them as little as possible for the first few times, just so that she knows that you are not hurting them, have a small plastic bowl or similar with you and put the chicks into it as you remove them from the nest, something that Zeke can see into, and don't take the bowl out of the cage, but check them while they are in the cage. Put some liner ... whatever you think will work .. onto the floor of the hut and pop the chicks back in. Even if the first few times you do little checking, but just prepare mum for the fact that you are going to be touching her chicks. It is all a bit of an experiment and all you can do is attempt to do this and be prepared to pull back if Zeke freaks out. Breeders pull budgie chicks out of the nest at around two-three weeks if they are wanting to hand-tame them for on-selling. You don't need to do this to have tame chicks, just handling them regularly gets them used to human interaction, although you might have more of a battle on your hands with the parents not being human inclined. Whatever you choose to do, I think you will make the right choice as it is fairly obvious that you are only wanting the best for the whole budgie family. Good luck and please, keep the info coming. It is all very interesting.
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 10, 2018 21:19:25 GMT
Hezz,
Your advice seems to be very good to me - let Zeke's reactions be our guide. If she is hiding near the back but handling it, we could clean out the nest. If she is freaking out, pull out and let things be.
And start slow - get them used to us reaching in and doing things, but be as unobtrusive as we can.
We'll move forward. And you're right - we just want the best for these budgies. My son told me he'd rather have a tough time hand taming later than to hurt their chances of survival. He was wise about that.
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Post by Hezz on Apr 11, 2018 8:07:07 GMT
The pair of you are doing so well. When you are able to, some photos of this little family would be great, but again .. let Zeke be the Guv'nor.
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Post by silascrutherton on Apr 12, 2018 18:02:54 GMT
More updates...
We've been attempting to just reach in the cage the past few days, moving things around a little while not actually handling the chicks. Zeke is very skittish - she runs away, but she doesn't seem to be abandoning the babes.
Here's the next phase...they appear to be struggling to get out of the cozy. The lip of the thing is really quite the obstacle right now. I'm thinking that's just fine.
Question though for when they get out - do we let them flounder around for a while, and then later on put them back in the nest?
P.S. I will attempt to get a few pics soon. They really are getting a lot of feathers!
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