Budgie liver problem, please, help me

[Deleted]

Hello. Can anybody tell me whether you have any experiences with liver problems at budgies? Another my beloved budgie has a liver problem by my vet. doctor. She told it by seeing the poops, lameness of the budgie, behaving like at the liver encefalopathy.... and saw the x rays picture, when the enlarged liver was seen like pressing on the heart which could cause the harder breathing during the last time. The air sacs were not visible on the x ray picture. She recommended me one amino acid adding into the water, also add there a little honey like a source of the sugar, and first three days adding there the powder against chlamydiosis ( in the case of this is the cause of the liver problem ). Despite my budgie was given it some recent time ago. She told me I can feed my beloved budgie what he likes, eggs, for example, if he likes that. My friend from this group recommended me also sylimarin powder or some light liver tea or canary seed. Do you have any experiences? Thank you.

[Shirls]

houndso and welcome @ivanvanca. I have a similar problem with my hen, Pip. I must add this hasn't been diagnosed by a vet, just plain experience really, so I have gone down the recommended route of giving her Milk Thistle in her water. If you decide to do this, you must get the ALCOHOL FREE Milk Thistle. I have got into the routine now of giving 8 drops in 200mls of water, three times per week (Mon, Wed, Fri for my own records!). You cannot overdose on this, and it is ok for all birds to have it if you have more than one bird. 8 drops is a bit high, but seems to work better for us, she did have a lesser dose every other day, but this, as I said, works well.

Not sure where you are but in the U.K. you can get NATURES ANSWER, alcohol free Milk Thistle at a really reasonable price. It comes with it's own dropper for easy use. You can put administer a couple of drops direct into the beak, but it does taste unpleasant apparently. I would start him off on a reasonable dose in water every day to start with. Lessening it as he improves, but still giving on a regular basis.

I must point out, I AM NOT A VET, this is just advice, may not necessarily work, but it has prolonged the life of my budgie and she is still going strong, and she is an elderly lady!

Make sure your birdie has vegetables as often as you can. Most budgies like sweet corn (I mix mine with mashed hard boiled egg yolk), celery is also very good for the liver, other favourites are carrot, snow peas, broccoli and some of the herbs such as basil and dill. Other things, like seeding grass, dandelion, and thistles are good for them as well.

Hope this is of some small help and that your budgie improves soon. Pease let us know how you get on.

I have no idea what the 'houndso' is at the beginning of this post but I can't get rid of it!!

[Deleted]

Hello, Shirls. Thank you. I really do not know how could I write houndso... It was not my typing... do not understand that. Sorry for that.
Thank you. Your budgie had a problem, you saw that on her signs and it improved her liver? Just the silimarin? that is good, but for me a little difficult to understand. I have capsules with sylimarin, where is a powder. but now I have to to add the doxycyklin ( against chlamydiosis ) for couple of days to see how my budgie is reacing on that, plus one amino acid, and some sugar or honey was recommended. I tried to take one drop from the water with those medicines and put it into the beak of my budgie, it was just one the side part of the beak... and he started to breath heavily after I put him back. I do not know if adding also sylimarin is required here.
Like I do not know if chlamydiosis could cause this liver. One my female had a liver problem, she died due to cholangiocarcinoma of the liver. I do not know why this my male has an englarged liver.
Do you think egg yolks are ok? Just your experience... I trust my vet, doctor, but also want to hear some experiences of other people. I will see if he is able to eat carrot now or cucumber. I would prefer skip the cabbage family veggies. What symptoms did your budgie have at a liver problem?

[Deleted]

P : S : I am from Slovakia, not from UK. :-)

[Hezz]

Any part of the egg is okay for the budgies to eat, but they are a high protein and cholesterol food, which a bird with liver disease doesn't necessarily need. Most budgies with liver disease will be over-weight, not all, of course, just like humans, and if their liver is compromised, they don't need the extra load that the high protein/fat diet puts on the liver.

I have never used the milk thistle powder, preferring the drops, but others have, and I have seen where it has been advised by a vet. I have no idea why your vet would recommend giving your bird honey. It seems counter-intuitive to me. A sweet crop will have a higher pH, leaving your bird more prone to crop infections.

It is very possible that your budgie reacted not to the medicines you were dispensing but rather the stress of being caught and held, and having the dose put into its beak, especially if your bird is not used to being handled.

[Deleted]

Hello. Thanks. What is a sweet crop? I did not understand the last sentence... My vet. told me that sugar or honey could help to motivate the liver, something like that.
Now my beloved budgie Bilko looked like dying, being on the chest and having the liver encefalopathy, I stayed at home now... I do not know what caused the enlarged liver. It is my fault I did not try to convert him on grass seeds and canary seed diet. Can the lack of the exercises and millet diet be connected to the fatty liver? My budgie Bilko is not overweighted budgie.

[Shirls]

Sorry to hear Bilko is not doing very well. I agree with Hezz re the honey, I would never give that to any bird. In my opinion, and I must stress that it is only my opinion you should give the liquid milk thistle, celery and a few herbs and dandelions, all the things suggested are good for the liver. Doxycyclin is an antibiotic and that shouldn't hurt at all.

I am not sure with birds but human liver does repair itself with the right treatment. Correct me if I am wrong here Hezz??

The crop is where the food passes to be digested, honey would as Hezz says change the PH (level of acidity) which could cause other problems.

Lack of exercise is not good for a budgie and excesses of millet (and groats and sunflower hearts) is fat inducing. As with all of us, a balanced diet is the best diet.

[Deleted]

Shirls, thanks. Again, I do not know how the word houndso got into my text, I did not type it!
I wrote hello. Dr. Ross Perry from Australia replied me that honey is ok, maybe just a little into the water to "provoke" the liver.
I can not force my handicaped budgie into more flying... He was almmost like dying today, being in the chest and moving his wings... the he got back. I gave him chard lettuce and now boiling quail eggs for all the budgies. I do not want to use pellets. Please, advise me, how to convert budgies from millet into grass seeds and canary seed? How? They are not eating that. but the senegal millet is not supposed to be very fat. Are sprouted seeds better, or what to change?

[Shirls]

I wasn'r suggesting you make your budgie fly right now while he is unwell, I was just talking generally, that budgies should have flying exercise. Lettuce does make budgie poo runny, so don't give too much. If he is not used to a balanced diet and only millet, it will be a slow process to convert him to eating other things.

Are you able to buy a 'budgie seed mix' where you live? If you can give that along with some millet until he gets used to eating mixed seeds all the time would be good. Sprouted seeds are good and no doubt all your budgies will take to them quite easily, I would think. Just keep providing mixed seed, seeded grasses, celery, whatever you can get. If Bilko sees the other budgies eating these things he will too.

[Shirls]

This is from an article I read some time ago:

Celery makes a great dietary aid and healer of the liver for overweight birds, which are suffering fatty liver disease.

Although celery is 95 per cent water, it is very alkaline and helps to balance PH levels in the body. It is also loaded with dietary fibre and plant cellulose which gives a feeling of fullness and therefore helps with weight loss. Celery is also very low in calories and is amazingly hydrating.
Hindu’s have used celery seed for centuries for its anti-inflammatory properties, to treat colds and to fight diseases of the liver and spleen.

Celery leaves are high in Vitamin A, flavonoids, antioxidants, zeaxanthins, luteins and beta-carotine. The stems are an excellent source of vitamins B1, B2, B6, B9, K and C and are dense in potassium, folic acid, calcium, magnesium, iron, phosphorus, sodium and essential amino acids. They also provide amazing antioxidant, cancer protective and immune boosting functions. Fights cancer – celery is known to contain at least eight families of anti-cancer compounds.

A study at Rutgens University, New Jersey found that celery contains a number of compounds that help prevent cancer cells from spreading. Acetylenics in particular has been shown to stop the growth of tumour cells. Coumarins help prevent free radicals from damaging cells and the development of colon and stomach cancers.
Celery is rich in sodium which is very different to table salt. Normal table salt is composed of insoluble inorganic compounds which lead to the development of varicose veins, hardening of the arteries and other ailments. If salt, including sea salt, is white, then it has been processed and all minerals have been destroyer. On the other hand, the sodium in celery is soluble and organic (live) and essential for the body. Organic salt allows the body to use the other nutrients that are taken into the body.

[Deleted]

Thank you, Shirls. I appreciate that. Everytime you need a "houndso" in my text, please, do not react on that,I really do not know what does it mean. It is complicated with my budgies. I bought Bilko on 14. 3. 2013 in the animal store and he was handicaped, he had broken wing and curved legs a little. But he was flying a little and having babies with some females in the panel house. He was never an obesed budgie. He is in the room with one another handicaped female which I bought from one woman. All the budgies are scared of me, not tamed. Maybe I am nervous from them and the shouting on them and stress can influence them.
Well, I am buying budgie seed mix. I was not buying versele laga, I have not bought it maybe for 18 months. I am buying from the Germany from the special store where they have many seeds without added anything, millet sprays. I also gave them green sprays when I growed them on balcony. Mainly he is eating millets and seeds, or carrots, also sweet potatoes, but I was told sweet potatoes have too much starch.
In the another room there is one dominant young male, albino female who had chlamydiosis and their young son. Albino female is laying the eggs. The dominant male from this rooms sometimes is let to fly to Bilko, but he is really dominant and I have to be there when I let him go there. I can not imagine how would I do the convertion to some other diet. I did not give him lettuce, but chard, green chard.
at this moment I put the infrared lamp next to him, maybe 40 centimetres. Once more thank you to advise me. i have to believe that the liver can repare also in this stage.

[Deleted]

Everytime you see a houndso, not need. Sorry.

[Deleted]

My beloved budgie Bilko died today. Thank you for your helps.... He had a massive hyperemia of the organs, and it probably was leading to an enlarged liver. Probably it is a cardiovascular problem, i will know if from histology. Thanks, friends.

[Hezz]

I am sorry for your little bird, Bilko; so sorry that he lost his fight to live.


If, in the future, you have any problems with the health of your birds, don't try to change their diet while they are sick. Instead, look at gradually changing over their mix to something more healthy now while the remaining flock is healthy (I use a finch seed mix as it has no oats and less oil seeds) and introduce them to more veggies so that they are eating fresh every day. Seeding grasses are great, even if you have to grow your own in pots.

A seed mix should contain at least five different sorts of seed. A diet of only any few things is not a healthy diet. That's a bit like you and I only eating bread, carrots and rice all our lives. Each food is a good healthy food but they do not make up a complete diet. It is possible that your bird was missing many of the micronutrients needed for a healthy body.

[Deleted]

Hello, thank you. I do not like phrases like rest in peace. I know Bilko is still here with us. Maybe somebody thinks that it is not righ to let the doctor to take samples on histology, but I still burry the budgie in the garden. I have to know the exact cause of what happened, so maybe I will have an answer if it could be caused by nutrients. I hope that not. Yes, I was trying to get quickly sylimarin now, or other things. But, my question is mainly if it could cause because my beloved Bilko was limited in flying and should not eat a seed mix. I do not know.