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Post by Morgan on Sept 17, 2020 6:43:04 GMT
I have used Harrison’s (Superfine) but they were difficult to find where I currently live. I did like them - Pig, Goat and Monkey all ate them just fine - but I do think they are more processed than they claim to be and also think feeding fresh foods is just better. I did find a shop that sells Harrison’s here finally and I probably will buy it again and serve a small amount separately from my budgies seed mix. I use Volkman currently because there isn’t anything a I’ve found much better yet - but I do soak their seed regularly until it begins to sprout (about two full days usually). The sugar is from the dried fruit (with added sugar probably because that type of dried fruit has a longer shelf life and is cheaper to supply for pet food) and most of the sugar and food coloring washes out during the initial soak and subsequent frequent rinses. It has a high germination rate - and sprouting is supposed to reduce the fat content as the seed uses up its stored starch to grow. I also add a vitamin supplement (can’t remember the name right now but from the same people who make guardian angel) to their soaked seed about every other day. And then fresh veg every day and fruit almost every day for my linnie but the budgies almost always ignore it or just have a few nibbles.
Oh, and I also tried Roudybush and Tops. Roudybush is mostly just corn (and wheat or soy if I remember correctly) and some vitamins - not really a complete diet by any means. My birds wouldn’t touch Tops. Not even if I ground it up and hid it in some egg or on top of their moistened seed. It’s mostly alfalfa. I recently went to the budgerigar breeders society and they had a sponsor (in the US) by the name of ABBA - abbaseed.com on the east coast. I am considering trying one of their premise seed mixes - but they contain weird things like honey, milk, chicken, beef, AND pork, so I’m still not sure yet... they also have a “SOAK” seed mix though and a prescribed diet that I suppose a lot of show breeders use. Not sure if those birds need a different diet though - more protein for feather production likely (hence maybe the beef/chicken/pork/milk ingredients) but maybe more fat too? I need to look into it more.
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Post by Morgan on Sept 17, 2020 6:56:43 GMT
<<What does this community think? Zupreem, Harrisons, Roudybush, TOPS? >> I've used Harrisons for years and I'm delighted with the results. Mine seem to prefer the Superfine size. So I remembered why I didn't try the Harrison's! The smallest bag they sell is 1lb, and they say to use them up within 6 weeks. My initial 2lb bag of Zupreem lasted the boys well over 5 months (I actually only JUST started a second bag), even using some for bird bread and with me dumping and refreshing their bowls in the morning and the afternoon. Do you have trouble getting through the Harrisons? You can refrigerate the Harrison’s pellets, and it should last at least three months that way. Just make sure you seal it up tightly without any air every time you put it back and don’t leave it out on the counter, etc. it comes in a bag that doesn’t allow air and light in because the vitamins are apparently delicate and can be damaged by light and oxygen according to their website. Also why you need to feed the correct amount and replace it daily. I don’t have any problem with this but I wonder why their vitamins are not so shelf stable when we have fortified breakfast cereals that do just fine in a flimsy cardboard box and thin plastic bags lolx
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on Sept 17, 2020 14:29:54 GMT
Good discussion and information on people's experiences with various feeds. Morgan could you give me the details on how you "sprout" the Volkmans - sorry, I'm not good with filling in the blanks. What type of container, do your leave it on the kitchen counter, how often do you rinse, do you discard stuff in the mixture, do you sprout only what they'll eat in day, do you have continuous batches going - thanks so much!
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Post by yellowfacedviolet on Sept 17, 2020 15:29:12 GMT
I don’t have any problem with this but I wonder why their vitamins are not so shelf stable when we have fortified breakfast cereals that do just fine in a flimsy cardboard box and thin plastic bags lolx Because our breakfast cereals contain preservatives and Harrisons does not.
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Post by elysianblight on Sept 17, 2020 17:38:12 GMT
Good discussion and information on people's experiences with various feeds. Morgan could you give me the details on how you "sprout" the Volkmans - sorry, I'm not good with filling in the blanks. What type of container, do your leave it on the kitchen counter, how often do you rinse, do you discard stuff in the mixture, do you sprout only what they'll eat in day, do you have continuous batches going - thanks so much! I recently tried to sprout some of our volkman's mix! I just did a test batch because I don't really know how to sprout, but I put a handful of them in a jar, put water over them, and let sit overnight. Then I drained and rinsed, and rinsed every day for 3-4 days until they sprouted. You keep it in a relatively dark area, not sunlight. It worked okay for a first try
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on Sept 17, 2020 19:05:06 GMT
Thank you - I'll give it a try.
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Post by Morgan on Sept 18, 2020 3:12:12 GMT
I don’t have any problem with this but I wonder why their vitamins are not so shelf stable when we have fortified breakfast cereals that do just fine in a flimsy cardboard box and thin plastic bags lolx Because our breakfast cereals contain preservatives and Harrisons does not. Sometimes those preservatives are just tocopherols - Vit E. But duh, good point!
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Post by Morgan on Sept 18, 2020 3:45:36 GMT
tweetiepiesmom - To sprout, it’s preferable to use a glass jar I think, but plastic is probably fine as well. I use a quart mason jar. You can cover it loosely with the mason jar lid (just the flat piece, not the screw on piece) - just set it in place on top and that still allows enough air through (the seeds need some air throughout the sprouting process). If you have fruit flies though, you can cover it with a paper towel or clean thin kitchen towel and press the screw-on part of the lid instead over that to create a seal. I usually soak enough for three day’s feeding, and I feed dry seed while waiting for the second batch - which I start on the last day of soaked seed feeding - so they eat dry seed every fourth day. Soak the seed for 4-8 hours in cool water (use enough water to cover the seed and then some) so the seed can absorb the water it needs to germinate - just let it sit on the counter in plain view (helps to not forget about it too!). Don’t worry about it being in a dark place too much - just not a very warm place or in direct sunlight or you will have to rinse it more often. Also putting it in a pantry or cabinet, etc. is not recommended because the air there is stagnant. The rinsing and draining are the most important parts - rinse every 3-4 hours ideally, but I have let it go a bit longer in between rinses when the weather is cool, and drain it well every time. I rinse by filling the jar up with fresh cool water and swishing it around and then drain it using the flat lid piece until there’s no more drips. Overnight you can just let it sit for eight hours and rinse in the morning. Don’t forget you can use your nose! If it smells off after rinsing it then it’s probably gone off Smell it often to you’ll get to know the difference. I let it sprout over two days usually, and sometimes I start with a little extra and feed it as it’s sprouting through the various stages - but most of it gets eaten when there’s just a root tail or the plant itself has just barely sprouted. You can store it in the fridge until it’s used up, and you can do bigger batches if you want to because it should keep for up to a week. You can also sprout it for more days and just leave it out and feed it at it’s various stages of growth if you will be home and have the patience and memory to keep rinsing it. I also rinse, soak, and sprout their millet sprays (on the spray, in spray form) and those I often let go longer and let them stay in indirect sunlight so they start to produce chlorophyll (turning green). Basically just growing millet grass on the spray - the roots form a natural mat on the bottom side and the grass grows upwards. My budgies still don’t usually eat the green bits or the roots if I hand feed or hang their sprays - they just go for the seed, but my linnie does eat the green bit too and sometimes the budgies start nibbling on that first if I set it upright like grass in a dish. Start with a small batch and have fun with it. It definitely requires being home and checking on it a lot though on those two sprouting days. Even one day, or honestly even just the soak begins the seeds’ germination process though, reducing fat and starch somewhat and changing its nutritional content.
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on Sept 18, 2020 15:01:52 GMT
Thank you Morgan. I'm going to give it a try and will post how it goes.
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Apr 27, 2024 15:01:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 21:28:12 GMT
So I remembered why I didn't try the Harrison's! The smallest bag they sell is 1lb, and they say to use them up within 6 weeks. My initial 2lb bag of Zupreem lasted the boys well over 5 months (I actually only JUST started a second bag), even using some for bird bread and with me dumping and refreshing their bowls in the morning and the afternoon. Do you have trouble getting through the Harrisons? You can refrigerate the Harrison’s pellets, and it should last at least three months that way. Just make sure you seal it up tightly without any air every time you put it back and don’t leave it out on the counter, etc. it comes in a bag that doesn’t allow air and light in because the vitamins are apparently delicate and can be damaged by light and oxygen according to their website. Also why you need to feed the correct amount and replace it daily. I don’t have any problem with this but I wonder why their vitamins are not so shelf stable when we have fortified breakfast cereals that do just fine in a flimsy cardboard box and thin plastic bags lolx At the hospital we sometimes have to give Total Parenteral Nutrition. That has to be kept refrigerated and covered when hung up to be given as the light breaks down the contents. Sounds like something similar. Although still seems strange to me in a dry product.
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Post by Morgan on Sept 18, 2020 21:55:31 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Sept 18, 2020 22:14:01 GMT
Btw, I looked up the abba seed products that I was considering again and would like some others’ opinion on that too. The soak seed seems fine, and they have a basic parakeet diet that is just millet (but maybe only one type), canary seed and oat groats with cod liver oil and wheat germ oil at 4% min fat, which is as close to what I think Hezz has stated should be good for a seed mix as I can find in the US, but their other parakeet food and nestling food (which is supposedly nutritionally complete - no need to add any fresh egg, and can be used to supplement birds year round or as the main diet for breeding pairs to feed their young) have some strange (though not necessarily bad) ingredients. No sugar, but they do list artificial (and natural) flavor at the end. :/ I found them through the budgerigar society’s page and assume many breeders use these feeds as standard, but what do you all think? Hezz - do you think their standard parakeet seed mix and the soak seed together would be sufficient for seed? Plus fresh veg and egg and such. Anyone who breeds birds - yellowfacedviolet maybe? - think the other parakeet food is better for show birds, and does the nestling food seem appropriate for growing birds or as a year-round supplement for adults? Soak seed: www.abbaseed.com/Seed_Products/SOAK/soak.htmlStandard parakeet: www.abbaseed.com/SEED_PRODUCTS/SUNBURST_MILLET/HERB_SALAD/MAGIC_DELIGHT/bianco_white/standard_parakeet.htmlParakeet food: www.abbaseed.com/Seed_Products/1600/1600_parakeet.htmlNestling food: www.abbaseed.com/NESTLING_FOODS/HANDFEEDING_/FEEDING_SYRINGES/RALF_RED/RALF_YELLOW/97.html
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Post by Hezz on Sept 19, 2020 1:22:33 GMT
Standard parakeet: INGREDIENTS: MILLET SEED, CANARY SEED, OAT GROATS, COD LIVER OIL, AND WHEAT GERM OIL Personally, I'd want to know more than that; it tells you nothing, so for me, I wouldn't go there. You don't need oats and I question why add the oils?
A seed mix that has at least five different types of millet and that includes the panicums, (The terms seem to be somewhat interchangeable, I see the term panicum millets used. Confused the he*l out of me initially, but panicum grass covers a huge variety of different species. ) with around 40-50% canary seed, millets being around the same percentage, and the rest made up of the lesser varieties - oats, if you want, niger, hemp, flax etc - the oil seeds is a good mix. As I've mentioned quite a few times, I use a finch mix instead as it has no oats, as many if not more different varieties of millets and panicums and the canary seed, very little of the oil seeds.
The nestling food reads more like a egg and biscuit - good for nestlings who might be struggling, parents with a nest-full of chicks, or a high-energy addition during times of heavy moult, illness etc. I doubt very much if it is meant as a daily food for adult birds. Not at minimum 18% fat!
I don't like all the additives in the other seed mix, either. I'm not a fan of additives or processed foods, so I'm afraid I wouldn't use any of these.
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Post by Morgan on Sept 19, 2020 3:34:01 GMT
Thank you Hezz! That is kind of what I was thinking too about the millet and long list of (many processed) ingredients. I know wheat germ oil is an excellent source of vitamin A, not sure about the cod liver oil - maybe omegas? I don’t think they intend the nestling food to be a regular diet at all - only for breeding pairs raising a clutch - or as a year-round supplement they say. Anywho, the search is still on. I haven’t checked if Haith’s ships to the US either yet - I do like to try and keep it local-ish if possible but that all depends on accessibility. I also haven’t checked out Higgins brand yet either because none of my local shops carry it. I might just have to buy the seed separately in bulk and mix it myself
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Post by Hezz on Sept 19, 2020 11:35:00 GMT
If you can, that would be a much better option - then you only have yourself to blame for what they eat. I've gone through a few different mixes before finding something I'm happy with, but stuck with only one supplier in my area. If they go bust, I'd have to do a biiiig rethink. So far, so good and fingrs kept crossed!
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