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Pellets
Jan 22, 2021 20:15:02 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 22, 2021 20:15:02 GMT
Update:
I have simplified the previous post for how I feed all this to my birds, now twice a day, and the ratios have changed slightly, but basically it’s this:
For 9 birds, total of 4 tbsp seeds/pellets, 2-4+ tbsp veggies available daily (not including an additional tsp for my linnie Lottie in the evening, fed separately).
So each of the budgies gets approx 1.4 tsp of dry food each, the rest fresh veg. So far no weight changes after three weeks.
1tbsp soaked/sprouted seed mixed w/ 1tbsp finely chopped veg, and 1tbsp Harrison’s pellets and TOP’s (pre-mixed ratio of 4:1) separately. Once in the morning and once in the evening. I clip up leafy greens and extra veg too.
Also offer ½ a boiled egg once a week (or twice if molting), sometimes with cooked quinoa. One or twice a week I add a homemade dry herb mix to their pellets, as well as bird-specific probiotics.
Waters: Morning: Replace night water with aloe water. Noon: Replace morning water with fresh plain water. Evening: Replace noon water with ACV water, (or iodine water once a week).
+ Dried herb mix may contain: unsalted seaweed, raspberry leaf, grape leaf, shiso, mint, oregano, fennel, dill, basil, thyme, marjoram, parsley, rosemary, sage, ginkgo, echinacea and calendula flower petals, crushed black pepper and cinnamon sticks, sliced ginger and turmeric, cumin, anise, and fennel seeds, and a tiny amount of powdered cayenne - I try to keep the powders to a minimum to reduce inhalation.
+ Fresh veg: 2-3 dark leafy greens and orange root/veggies each, but limit spinach, chard, and beet leaf. May contain: Store-bought: boiled mashed sweet potato or winter squash, carrot, bell pepper, broccoli, brussels sprouts, romaine, leaf lettuce, baby spinach, baby chard, baby kale, celery, cucumber, basil, watercress, chickweed, dark green/red lettuces, mustard, kale, chard, dandelion leaf, plantain, arugula, parsley, fennel, dill, oregano, rosemary, mint, sage, calendula, echinacea, ginkgo, raspberry leaf, grape leaf and vine, shiso, summer squash, corn, snap peas, etc.
Diluted waters: * 3:1 ratio filtered water to pure aloe juice. * ⅛ tsp raw apple cider vinegar (with the mother) to 8oz filtered water * 6 drops iodine to 8oz filtered water
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Post by blueelephant on Jan 23, 2021 19:51:56 GMT
Morgan This is an interesting thread. I've been trying Barney on Harrison's for a couple of weeks now. It's interesting because he does know they are food. If I give him a single pellet in my fingers he will eat it sometimes but he's definitely not keen. I've tried the just pellets in the morning and he will have one or two then go and sit an sulk 🤣. I currently have a pot of just pellets in and a mix of seed and pellets in a second pot. I've not seen him willingly eat the pellets till just now. I'd taken the seed pellet mix out to remove the seed cases and he hopped to the other pot and ate 5 or so just pellets. I've mainly seen him pick them up and drop them before. Do they ever get to the point of tucking into pellets like they do a seed pot? I don't plan to do a complete switch as I was intending to let him have seed as well if I can get him eating the pellets too. Along with fresh veg.
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Pellets
Jan 24, 2021 1:47:58 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 24, 2021 1:47:58 GMT
blueelephant - Mine sure do tuck in! I think it does take a while for them to get a taste for it. Kind of like getting a toddler to eat their veggies. If you start early on and offer a variety of foods often, their taste buds will eventually adjust. But if they always have something tastier to choose from, they probably won’t want the healthier food. It sounds like you’re making a good start though! I also have eight budgies now, so I think the competition encourages them, but they do have preferences! The millet is always gone first from their seed mix, followed by the oats and then whatever is left. My linnie will sometimes preferentially eat the pellets though, or at least a witch back and forth between pellets and seed pretty evenly if I offer both at the same time. I can’t imagine that Harrison’s tastes that bad to them once they are used to it. I remember when I only had Pig, and she was pretty quick to get eating pellets, but she was only three months old according to the previous owners. And she always was good at eating her veggies and egg and such too, probably because she was pretty young when I found her, and starving from being lost all day. All we had at the time was rice, quinoa, fruits, and veggies to feed her that very first night. I looked up what was safe. She ate all of it by the next morning, and everything we offered that morning as well. I had her on dry seeds and budgie-safe human food for the first week until we found her owners and they told me I could keep her. I don’t think they wanted to bring her to the vet, because she was pretty badly banged up, and I was already attached from caring for her for a few days. I have always loved birds, even though she was a surprise. An early Christmas present that year <3 Ok back to the point, sorry! So I got samples of Roudybush and Harrison’s, and I decided not to mix seed in at first because I figured she would just eat the seed. I took her food out overnight (I had been reading about converting picky budgies while waiting for the samples to arrive) and I offered both pellets to her mixed 50/50 in her known food dish in the morning and she ate a few right off the bat. She preferred the Harrison’s, and I preferred the ingredients list, so it was a win win. I then mixed in the same amount of seed after breakfast time (a1:1:1 ratio) and used both samples up, plus another bag of Harrison’s that I purchased because the Roudybush sample was a whole bag, and the Harrison’s sample was just a tiny packet! Haha they didn’t win brownie points for that one, but they were still better quality. Once I had gone through the Roudybush I stopped offering seed and because she was eating the Harrison’s pellets well. I also tried getting her to eat TOP’s, which her vet had said was potentially better than Harrison’s, but especially for certain larger parrots. She refused to eat the TOP’s completely. I ground it up and mixed it into her egg, so she did ingest some, but never ate a single whole pellet! I was pretty surprised actually because she eats everything else! I thought maybe the size was too big for her. She was also on Doxy by this time (and wasn’t allowed watery veggies) though so that could have affected her appetite too now that I think about it. So as for my other birds, when I moved I couldn’t find Harrison’s for a while, so I switched back to seed (Volkman was the best brand I could find without sugar - just in the fruit pieces) and started sprouting and such in the meantime. I started thinking that a complete fresh food diet might be better than a processed pellet diet too, but then I did find Harrison’s again at one of my local pet stores, and I do appreciate that all the nutrients are properly balanced by a vet nutritionist. Also, I am currently rethinking this again because honestly every single vet recommendation I have read (other than Tweetie Pie’s vet, who said 50% fresh foods and the remainder 50/50 seeds/pellets, which I think would leave my budgies feeling quite dissatisfied), says a budgie diet should be at least 70% high quality pellets, and 10% or less seeds, the rest fresh veg... And the last time I spoke to my vet, who doesn’t do phone consultations (well at least before Covid he didn’t), he said the diet I was feeding was fine, and touted TOP’s as being the best natural pellet, but we didn’t go into detail so... I should try calling him again, and a few others, on my to do list. Sorry for rambling, but maybe the whole story has some usefulness here! So when I got Monkey and Goat, they were on a pure seed diet, no veg or anything. They were also quite young though, their owner got them as 2-3months olds and only kept them for a month or two. I kept them on seed for their first month of quarantine (though I did throw out their old cheap mix completely and just used Volkman) and a while afterwards as well, but I noticed that Monkey was getting a bit overweight (44g! I hadn’t been weighing regularly but she had previously been 38g). Then I did the whole conversion to pellets over again with half seed and half pellets, but this time feeding each separately because I was feeding only sprouted seed at this point, which is wet and I didn’t want to get the pellets soggy. Pig must have shown them that pellets were food, because they didn’t make a fuss eating Harrison’s either, and Monkey’s weight started to go down to normal again. It was the same for Soul and Xephy, my linnie was a hand fed 2 month old baby so she ate anything I gave her, and with Moxie - she was at least used to eating veggies and egg and her seed mix was already Volkman also, if I remember correctly. So by the time she had pellets with the rest I think there was no question about it. So I have been feeding half soaked/sprouted seed and half Harrison’s with about 25% fresh veg since I got Monkey and Goat, and then added in TOP’s since I got Soul and Xephy. Everyone’s weights have been pretty stable. I am actually going to slowly transition to feeding a diet of about 70% Harrison’s now though. That was going to be my next update after a few weeks, but since I’m on a roll here I’ll just copy and paste from my feeding notes: 9 birds (one is a linnie, so she eats a bit more than the buds): Morning: 1/2tbsp soaked seed mix w/ 1.5tbsp finely chopped veg. Aloe water. Boiled egg once a week, twice if molting. Noon: 2 tbsp + 1tsp Harrison’s mixed w/ TOP’s (4:1 ratio). Fresh water or weak Echinacea, Calendula, Chamomile tea (something new I wanted to try for them). Evening: 2tbsp Harrison’s mixed w/ TOP’s. Feed Lottie (my linnie) 1 tsp plain soaked seed, separately. ACV water, Iodine once a week. So, for someone feeding only Harrison’s, veggies, and some seed (leaving out TOP’s because honestly getting them to eat it while they have other options available is pretty difficult - it’s always the last thing eaten before I feed their next meal), and assuming 2tsp of food daily, this would come to 1.4 tsp of Harrison’s (I’d just round up to 1.5), .4 tsp finely diced fresh veggies (again I’d just round up to .5), and .2tsp (round up to .25) of seed per bird, daily. I know it seems like I am always messing with their food! I do it slowly though, over two weeks usually. I always try to feed a variety of different veg, with focus on dark green leafy and meaty orange items, and a variety of small amounts of herbs. Overall I went from a complete Harrison’s diet with Pig (Dec 2019) to complete fresh foods (May 2020, her weight has always stayed about the same, she doesn’t seem to overeat), to half and half when I noticed Monkey started getting chubs (Oct 2020), to 1:1:1:1 with Harrison’s, TOP’s, fresh veg, and seed. Now transitioning to mostly Harrison’s, followed by fresh veg, and just a tiny amount of TOP’s and seed (Feb 2021 by the time the transition is complete). I may as well record their usual weights here too, since October’s first diet change from all fresh sprouted seeds/veg: 37-38g has been normal for Monkey, but I think she is still a little on the chunky side. She’s still got a bit of a birdy “chest”, and Pig and Moxie have been at 35-36g, while the boys are between 32-33 for Topsie and Chopper, Xephy at 33-34 and Goat and Soul at 34-35, since Oct. 30 2020, weighing weekly.
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Pellets
Jan 24, 2021 19:55:57 GMT
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Post by blueelephant on Jan 24, 2021 19:55:57 GMT
Morgan Thanks for the info, that is useful. I will persist and see how we go. I weighed him today just to check there was no weight loss. 51g which is probably a bit more than previously. I wonder if it's extra muscle. He's been flying around lots and shouting at the top of his voice for about a week now. No idea why but my previous concerns he was a bit lazy at times have been dismissed 🤣
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Post by Morgan on Jan 24, 2021 20:54:50 GMT
Morgan Thanks for the info, that is useful. I will persist and see how we go. I weighed him today just to check there was no weight loss. 51g which is probably a bit more than previously. I wonder if it's extra muscle. He's been flying around lots and shouting at the top of his voice for about a week now. No idea why but my previous concerns he was a bit lazy at times have been dismissed 🤣 Mine are all wild type budgies too btw. I probably should have mentioned just for reference. My linnie weighs on average 55-56g, which I think might be about the size of an English budgie, but since I don’t have any, not sure. But yeah, don’t give up! I’m pretty sure once he is eating them (which he is), I’d you slowly decrease the amount of seed each day he should catch on pretty quick. He may complain a little at first, so don’t give in right away. If you remove the seed for him to eat the pellets, give him at least a few hours before giving him back the seed. Budgies can go six hours I have heard, but I wouldn’t go more than four without food they are definitely eating. Maybe three tops really. Even with the TOP’s pellets, which were really a challenge for me, I have never had to leave them more than two, or maybe three hours at first, without other foods (besides fresh veggies) before they ate at least half of them. Any time they ate a significant amount I would always bring in their other food immediately, but also leave the trial food too (mix them together at this point if it’s all dry food), so they get used to it being there. Then eventually (with the Harrison’s, but in my experience not the TOP’s) they should eat it without fuss.
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 4:37:14 GMT
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Post by mona on Jan 25, 2021 4:37:14 GMT
I had been thinking about adding pellets too. Just checked out harrison pellet availability over here.. It costs 12k for 5lb 😳😒 I don't think good pellets would be available over here and I'm already skeptical about the bird food quality over here.. I would have to think of getting them eat a wider variety (in terms of balanced diet). The food they don't like..I might try adding all of it into a birdie bread or cookie..
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 5:57:54 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 25, 2021 5:57:54 GMT
mona - I think one of the links I added to your thread about the staining includes a list of the most common vitamin deficiencies in budgies. You could look up what foods are hugest in each of those vitamins, and then get your birds to eat whichever are safe as their primary veggies. For example, if I remember correctly budgies are commonly deficient in Vitamin A (this seems to be a big one, pops up everywhere), Vitamins D, E, K, B Vitamins, and Iodine. Iodine is highest in seafood - or dried unsalted seaweed. You may just need a supplement for that though. Egg yolks are the food highest in vitamin A that are bird safe that last time I checked. They also contain a good amount of Vitamin K and B vitamins (if the hen was fed properly, probably true for all of this really). Vitamin E is high in leafy greens (along with calcium), and Vitamin D is best gotten from direct sunlight, and helps Calcium be absorbed - which comes mainly from dark leafy greens. But limit spinach and beet leaf which contain high oxalic acid. Oxalic acid limits absorption of calcium, but breaks down under heat. For humans (I have always been pretty interested in nutrition) the healthier way to eat these greens is frozen first and then cooked - to really break open the cell walls and break down any limiting factors such as oxalic acid. This is also true for kale, broccoli, and other brassicas (but I personally don’t like Brussels sprouts frozen before being cooked - they always end up mushy!) - but spinach and beet leaves I believe are the highest in oxalic acid to begin with. I’m sure I missed something but one of those links has much more thorough info about the deficiencies and how to recognize the signs too. And honestly the supplement you are using might just make life easier while you trying to get them to eat specific foods for nutrition as well. I wonder how much of these deficiencies come from the lack of insects in their diet in captivity? But in the wild I have heard from an avian vet statement (on YouTube, from Australia) that wild budgies eat something like 250 different kinds of seeds, as well as tiny insects. I also wonder if cooking food helps make certain nutrients more available to the birds, as it does for humans. Cooking does destroy certain enzymes, but makes certain foods (like carrots for example) easier to digest. Some people think cooking may have contributed to supporting intelligence in the human brain - In not wording that properly, but basically our brains alone burn a ton of calories and cooking our food makes it easier to digest and helps us to asimílate more energy and nutrients from it. Perhaps if pellets are not cooked at very high heat this could make them easier to digest too, as I think TPM mentioned her vet said about Tweetie Pie needing to eat pellets because he wouldn’t be as likely to throw them back up...
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 6:30:15 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 25, 2021 6:30:15 GMT
I just found another guide to transitioning from seed to pellets while trying to find info on pellet digestibility. Just thought I would share (you can probably skim past the intro and skip to the transition part) This guide is a bit more detailed and step-by-step than what I had written previously: www.thesprucepets.com/converting-bird-from-eating-seeds-to-pellets-1236726
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 6:44:19 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 25, 2021 6:44:19 GMT
Omg omg I think I found the holy grail of information on pellets! Here ya’ll go! Enjoy! littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/nutrition-pellets.htmlActually, Marianne Marlow - Do you think this might be worthy of sticky-ing? Or just adding the link someplace more visible where more people could read through it? Feel free to read through it yourself of course. It’s pretty complete I think.
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May 6, 2024 10:39:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2021 6:58:34 GMT
Thank you so much Morgan, for these helpful links!
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 7:04:14 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 25, 2021 7:04:14 GMT
These sections in particular answered a few of my questions. Sorry it’s a bit long:
“It takes a lot of work to feed a truly well balanced diet using only natural foods. You have to know where to get adequate amounts of certain nutrients. You have to know which nutrients compete with each other for absorption (for example calcium and phosphorus) and try to compensate for this. It takes a special effort to meet the need for Omega 3 fatty acids without providing an excessive amount of fat in the diet. You have to figure out how to provide D3 and B12 because these simply aren't available from plant foods.”
(Inserting my own note here: boiled egg should cover the B12, and if you can bring your birds outside then D is covered too)
“Here are some of the pitfalls. Seeds, grains, and nuts in general can not meet the protein needs unless an excessive number of calories is consumed, and they are grossly deficient in Vitamin A. Certain other natural foods can help make up for these deficiencies. For example vegetables provide Vitamin A and the right proportion of beans/legumes will help with the protein problem. It's difficult to meet the mineral need (especially calcium) with plant foods, because many are loaded with antinutrients that interfere with absorption.”
(In this case, if you have the skills to cover the vitamin A, you can use a trusted calcium supplement)
“Vitamin B12 isn't found in plant foods either, but it's fairly easy to acquire it from the environment. It's created by bacteria in the intestine at a point that's too low for the bird to absorb it. But enough gets passed out of the body that the bird can acquire it by munching on its own poop, and take advantage of the B12 on its second trip through the digestive tract. This may be the reason that poop eating is so common with pet birds.”
(The last sentence here is why I included this. But egg should still be able to cover the B12 if the hen who laid the eggs was fed properly - and in the USA most chicken feeds have added vitamins themselves. Now the next part starts to answer some of my previous questions.)
“It seems to be generally agreed that both pelleting and extrusion improve the nutritional quality and digestibility of the complex carbohydrates and protein, and helps eliminate antinutrients. Some vitamins will be lost during the process but there are a variety of techniques to ensure that the final product contains adequate vitamin levels.
The major brands of conventional (non-organic) pellets were formulated by professional nutritionists to have balanced amounts of every essential nutrient that birds are known to need. They are aware of factors like antinutrients and competition between nutrients, and have compensated for this in their formulation.
Most pellets use finely ground ingredients formed into a nugget of uniform texture, so that the bird will get the right balance of nutrients with every bite instead of being able to pick out its favorite bits and leave the other stuff behind. The major conventional pellets include Zupreem, Roudybush, Lafeber, Hagen (Tropican), Higgins (Intune), Kaytee, and Mazuri. Lafeber's Nutriberries and Avi-Cakes are a different kind of pellet; they have the same nutritional balance as regular pellets, but the ingredients haven't been ground up as finely so they look like seed balls or seed cakes that are held together by a nutrient-rich "glue". Caitec Oven Fresh Bites are also a "different" kind of complete pellet that is baked not extruded. The larger sizes have a fairly regular nugget shape, but the small size looks like it was baked in a flat shallow pan and then broken up with a hammer, so the pieces are very irregular in shape and size. This seems to make them more interesting because eating is more of a foraging experience, with different-sized chunks to choose from. It's possible to find other pellet brands but the nutritional quality of off-brand pellets is questionable.
Harrisons is the only organic pellet that is nutritionally complete. There are several other brands of organic pellets on the market, but they were NOT professionally formulated and do not aim for nutritional balance or completeness. They contain healthy ingredients and are expected to provide better nutrition than an all-seed diet, and will add variety to the diet if your bird enjoys the crunchy texture. But these incomplete pellets will not safeguard your bird against certain types of nutritional deficiency.
The incomplete pellets (including TOPS and Goldenfeast) generally don't contain Vitamin D3 which is essential for calcium absorption and is not available from plant sources. I have a separate article on the Vitamin D issue and ways to deal with it. These pellets often lack Vitamin B12 as well, another essential nutrient that isn't available from plants. Some "nonprofessional" brands use alfalfa as a major ingredient, apparently not realizing that although it looks good on paper, it is poorly digested by birds (Feedipedia under the Nutritional Aspects tab). Incomplete pellets aren't likely to have a good balance of several other nutrients, since this balance doesn't occur naturally in plants and it takes a conscious effort to achieve this balance. They might not even provide complete protein. As this article explains, it looks like there aren't any important differences between organic and conventional food, so your bird will be better off with a complete conventional pellet than an incomplete organic one.”
(And this!)
“It's important to understand that nutritional completeness is a goal not a reality. There has been little research on the nutritional needs of parrots, and most of the information on the dietary requirements of birds comes from extensive research in the poultry industry, which has very different aims for its birds than pet owners do. We can be sure that there are differences between the needs of poultry and parrots but we don't know what those differences are. Dietary guidelines have not been established for a single one of the 350+ parrot species. Furthermore there will be individual differences within a species, so it simply isn't possible to come up with a single food that will be all things for all birds. But there's abundant evidence that the current pellets go quite a long way toward meeting the needs of parrots (Koutsos et al, Ullrey et al, Hess). Several of the major pellet companies are conducting research to refine their formulas and make them even more appropriate for pet birds.
Since there isn't a uniform definition of what nutritional completeness means for a parrot, there are nutritional differences between the different pellet brands. There are charts at the end of this article illustrating some of the differences. If you offer more than one brand, it will help average out the differences between them and will also give your bird the power to make a choice between the different options.”
(Just a preview, the rest continues on, very detailed and informative! Exactly what I’ve been looking for this whole time to have a proper discussion.)
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Pellets
Jan 25, 2021 8:13:28 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 25, 2021 8:13:28 GMT
Ok just one more:
“What parrots eat in the wild is only partly relevant. Your bird's natural habits should certainly be taken into consideration when planning the diet. But the energy needs and general lifestyle of pet birds is very different from that of wild birds, so their nutritional needs will be different. According to Koutsos et al,
"The diets consumed by free-living birds can rarely be duplicated in captivity because the vast range of seeds and other food items are not usually available in sufficient quantities. Even if these food items, or very similar ones, could be obtained, they may still not be nutritionally adequate. This is because birds usually eat a quantity of food necessary to satisfy their energy needs, and free-living birds have to expend considerable energy to support thermoregulation, extensive foraging, defenses, etc... Thus, the amount of food consumed by a free-living bird is much greater than the amount of the same foods consumed by that bird in captivity. However, the daily need for amino acids, minerals, and vitamins is relatively constant regardless of energy expenditure. Therefore, birds in captivity must acquire the same daily quantity of essential nutrients as free-living birds but with much less food consumed. Consequently, the concentrations (g/kg) of amino acids, vitamins, and minerals must be higher in captive diets than wild diets, and food items that might be sufficient for a wild bird can be inadequate for the same bird in captivity. Additionally, birds in the wild do not always have the nutritional wisdom to select adequate diets. Many animals are able to balance energy, amino acid, and calcium levels in their diets by selecting among dietary items, but there is little evidence that animals can select for adequate levels of many other nutrients."
In other words, captive birds need food that has lower calorie density and higher density of other nutrients than the food they'd eat in the wild. But the paper goes on to say that domestic plants have it the other way around.
"The nutritional characteristics of food items from domestic plants are often very different from those from native plants. In general, seeds from domestic plants are more concentrated in energy and lower in protein and many other essential nutrients than seeds available in the wild. Likewise, domestic fruits and vegetables are higher in energy and water but lower in other essential nutrients compared with relatives in the wild."
Our article on Pet Birds & the Wild Diet has a numerical example demonstrating the problems in trying to make the wild diet work for pet birds. Foods are vehicles that deliver necessary nutrients, and we need to focus on what's being delivered not on what the delivery vehicle looks like.
It's likely that many if not most wild birds have nutritional deficiencies, so the wild diet is not necessarily a good example of what the optimal diet would be. Voren says, "There are populations of birds and animals in habitats all over the world that survive and reproduce on grossly deficient diets. All a pair of living things has to do in order to maintain a population is survive long enough to produce two offspring that, in turn, survive long enough to reproduce. Living a long, healthy life has nothing to do with this." Koutsos et al and Klasing comment on the ability of birds to select adequate levels of some nutrients (including protein, calcium and salt) but their inability to select for other nutrients. The wild diet is obviously good enough to keep the species going but it's not likely to be a "perfect" diet that maximizes their life expectancy. The food supply is too variable and unreliable for that. Wild birds have a much shorter life expectancy than pets, largely because so many of them get picked off by predators. But predators prey on the weak, and how many of their victims are weak because of diet deficiencies or diet-related disease? There's no way for us to know.”
It does say prior to this that small birds, and particularly budgies and cockatiels, may need less pellets than larger parrots.
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Post by Hezz on Jan 26, 2021 1:17:17 GMT
Do some more research and you may find that not all science people have a lot of respect for the author of that site. I found a very interesting discussion on another forum regarding her opinions and her “science facts”. Since it is another forum, I will not be sharing it but suffice to say that it appears she loves to heckle others who don’t bow to her “superior knowledge”. Jason Crean (Dr) has some interesting articles as well as a Facebook page, more in keeping with the raw food side of things which the other person does not subscribe to, who doesn’t agree with the science of sprouted seeds containing less fat than the original. www.omagdigital.com/publication/?i=214533&article_id=1741453&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5
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Pellets
Jan 26, 2021 5:39:57 GMT
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Post by Morgan on Jan 26, 2021 5:39:57 GMT
Hmmm, I can’t seem to get that page to load.
I will look into what people have to say about her as far as whether the information she has compiled is true or not, but I could really care less if people don’t like her for her personality. I found a few of my professors in uni to be abrasive as well, perhaps coming off as arrogant at times, but they certainly knew more than me in their area of expertise.
Not saying the author of that article is an expert herself, but she has shared information garnered from others who are, and with links to her sources, many of which are actual scientific studies, which I have quite a bit of respect for. It has been difficult to find information about companion parrot diets with any sources to back it up. That being said, I haven’t checked every one of her sources, but the ones I did check out were pretty solid.
About her comments on sprouting, she seems to only be explaining what has been studied so far. Here’s what she has to say:
“Benefits of sprouting - myth and reality
Germination and sprouting set off a biochemical reaction in seeds and grains. It is widely reported on the internet that sprouts are a superfood, and that sprouting causes a significant improvement in the quality and quantity of many beneficial nutrients, along with a decrease in the amount of fat. Unfortunately this is a myth; scientific studies indicate that the nutritional content changes but it doesn't change enough to make a noticeable difference, particularly when the seed has only been sprouted out to a short length.
But even though sprouts aren't a superfood, they are beneficial in other ways. Sprouting improves the digestibility of the seed/grain by making it softer and easier to process, and it may improve the bioavailability of some nutrients by removing anti-nutrients like phytate. Our birds would have easy access to living, growing foods in the wild. Sprouting helps us approximate this part of their diet, even though they probably wouldn't eat sprouts in the wild. Variety in the diet adds interest and enrichment to our birds' lives, and the texture of moist sprouts is very different from that of dry seeds and grains. Grocery-store sprouts aren't recommended for birds due to problems with bacteria and mold.”
Then she goes on to talk about how to sprout various seeds for your birds. It doesn't seem to me that she is against sprouting completely, just that some of the information being spread online due to the hype of sprouting is just that, hype, and not supported (yet?) by any actual scientific studies (that she has come across).
It does kind of make sense that a soaked or sprouted seed wouldn’t be significantly lower in fat until it has used up much of it’s fat stores to become a plant - so just the root sticking out may not be enough. I’m sure a sprout that is sprouted most of the way must be much lower in fat though, as at that point it is no longer a seed at all, but a tiny green leaf and stem. I know from experience that my birds highly prefer when the sprouts are just a little tail versus a tiny plant xD So if you did find that perfect moment between the root poking out and the cotyledons just emerging, perhaps at that point the “seed” (or is it a plant at this stage?) would have less fat. As far as the nutrient content I have no idea, because I have not read or been referred to any actual scientific study about that one way or the other.
Science isn’t perfect anyway, as you probably know very well! We are constantly learning more - as well we may never be able to know everything about our mysterious world and how life itself really works. But what we do know so far shouldn’t be ignored simply because we don’t know everything, I think? Anyway, I’m just sharing information and people can do what they will with it. I don’t like to ignore anything just because. If it doesn’t make logical sense then I may ignore it after understanding it better, but I have learned through my travels not to judge something I don’t understand completely, just because other people have strong feelings about it, or even because I have strong feelings about it. My strong feelings are completely in support of feeding whole fresh foods, but would that actually keep my birds healthy?
I’ll be happy to look at what Jason Crean has to say about feeding whole foods as well, because I would prefer to feed a whole food diet, but only knowing that I am actually covering all the bases. I don’t want to guess.
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Pellets
Jan 26, 2021 5:47:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by Morgan on Jan 26, 2021 5:47:35 GMT
Ah, the link you posted just loaded! Reading it now
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