Budgie diet and nutrition

[Loz]

Pepper tops here are offered in the Forage Gym and all the birds seem to like the seeds, if Chocobo gives them a chance. Without a forage gym, skewering or clipping is an option but so is offering it on a saucer or plate.

I give Zolcal F (Vit D & calcium) in the recommended concentration once per week. In the past it was given three times per week (in view of Chocobo's egg-obsession) and I'm worried that I have perhaps given Herman a kidney issue. Hopefully he'll recover, he seems pretty healthy these days.

[Ira]

Aug 26, 2023 14:18:49 GMT Marianne Marlow said:

They only get it once a week 5ml of calcivet in their water (500ml)

Do you think this is unnecessary Ira?

The birdcare company told me that lack of calcium could be responsible for seizures when my Jerry passed away all those years ago, so I have given it to my budgies once a week ever since.

Aug 26, 2023 14:13:11 GMT Ira said:

My recommendation would be to go easy on the calcium. Budgies don't need all that much calcium at all, demonstrated through experiments of how many eggs they can lay before the shells become poor, and excess has to be filtered out by the kidneys.
A breeding bird on an all seed diet may need supplementation, but dark leafy greens are quite rich in calcium.

Honestly, Marianne, it's incredibly hard to say.
They've evolved to survive on a calcium-poor diet.
I can't recall the exact numbers.
But that amount doesn't sound excessive, though I don't know how much calcium is in a ml of calcivet.

I supplemented calcium when Gwen was nesting, but haven't bothered since. Maybe my lack of calcium will turn out to be the wrong decision.

[Loz]

I had to stop offering coriander as Squeak used to get tied up in the stems. I kid you not. I'm guessing that's a bit of outlier behaviour though.

Looks like squash is getting added to the mix.

I will try again with the sweet potato but they haven't been keen in the past (admittedly a long time ago now.)

[Marianne Marlow]

Dunno if this helps!

This is from my bottle of calcivet Ira

[Ira]

Sweet potato mashed and mixed with some grains. They eat somè picking out the grains.

I can't chop small enough to make bite-size pieces so I end up mashing stuff a lot.



Part of the problem with avian nutrition in captivity is that it's a niche research subject, the researchers don't massively promote their work, and then it just disappears into the aether as no one picks up the subject.

[Marianne Marlow]

I take it that the squash needs to be cooked?

[Ira]

33g/l
0.033g/ml

So 5ml = 0.165g, so 165mg

But then you dilute to 500ml.
So
165mg/500ml
1.65mg/5ml
0.33mg/ml

[Ira]

Aug 26, 2023 14:32:34 GMT Marianne Marlow said:

I take it that the squash needs to be cooked?

It can be fed raw.
Or chopped and steamed.

[Marianne Marlow]

Thanks Ira, but that may as well be Pi.

Is it too much calcium for my budgies once a week?

Aug 26, 2023 14:32:35 GMT Ira said:

33g/l
0.033g/ml

So 5ml = 0.165g, so 165mg

But then you dilute to 500ml.
So
165mg/500ml
1.65mg/5ml
0.33mg/ml

[Ira]

Aug 26, 2023 14:37:57 GMT Marianne Marlow said:

Thanks Ira, but that may as well be Pi.

Is it too much calcium for my budgies once a week?

Aug 26, 2023 14:32:35 GMT Ira said:

33g/l
0.033g/ml

So 5ml = 0.165g, so 165mg

But then you dilute to 500ml.
So
165mg/500ml
1.65mg/5ml
0.33mg/ml

I don't think so. But I'll need to double check.

[Hezz]

A so-called budgie expert avian vet told my vet that no budgie should be given calcium supplements. That is obviously a load of sh*t for breeding hens and if the birds have calcium blocks and cuttlefish bone that they can self-manage, aren’t breeding then they shouldn’t need extra calcium that they can’t avoid in their diet.

[Ira]

It's very much dependent upon the base diet.

Seed mixes are very low in calcium, which is why historically there were so many issues with poor egg quality and egg-binding in budgies, because they were being fed these mixes without supplements.

In the wild the seeds they eat during breeding are higher in calcium.

For budgies, the lowest tested dose of calcium for maintenance (i.e. not breeding) is 0.3%.
(Chickens need around 2.7-3%)
Most pellets are formulated to 0.6-0.7%, which over time can cause mineralisation in the kidneys. Thus the pellet is fed as a lower proportion of the overall diet, with fresh foods that are low in calcium being offered to balance this out.

[Hezz]

That’s fine for seeds etc that they are eating for themselves but the problem comes from supplements added to the drinking water that they can’t avoid.

I’m interested in where your info has come from, Ira. Do you have a link you can share?

I do remember reading a while back that most pellet brands, certainly those from the US, are worked out on dietary requirements for rainforest parrots. This is the reason, if I remember this correctly, why budgies and cockatiels don’t do so well on pelleted diets and the only pellet I would buy for my budgies is by Vetafarm, an Australian company started by a vet to provide better dietary choices for pet birds, particularly the popular Australian parrots such as budgies and cockatiels.

[Ira]

Yeah, unfortunately even Roudybush, which was made at 2.7kcal/g because that kept the researcher's cockatiels out of breeding condition, is too high in a lot of nutrients.

Ooh, that might be a good one, Hezz. Typically only one place sells it here and it's out of stock at the moment. I can get it on ebay if I want to spend £30 on shipping!
Which is the other issue for using pellets in the UK. Not much choice because they're all imported and sometimes we have supply issues as a result.

Sort of. There's a site called 'The Budgie Academy', which is run by a scientist who specialises in avian nutrition, and owns a few rescue budgies and cockatiels herself.
I should be able to download the research papers and such to show you guys. Just need to get my laptop out to do it.

[criswell]

The Budgie Academy site looks great. This is the link to the blog which has loads of interesting posts. Lots of reading for me today! You can also become a member

www.thebudgieacademy.com/blog/

I'm really interested to read any articles you can download Ira