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Post by ffiscool on Jan 28, 2020 0:18:35 GMT
Good luck. He’ll be fine with you holding and chatting
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Post by criswell on Jan 28, 2020 0:45:04 GMT
Thanks. That's what I used to do with Criswell, but he didn't have a friend to come with him anyway.
I will update when we get back tomorrow. Our appointment is at 4.30pm.
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Post by Hezz on Jan 28, 2020 18:20:48 GMT
Fingers crossed. xx
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,743
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Jan 28, 2020 20:06:56 GMT
How is he?
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Post by criswell on Jan 29, 2020 1:35:54 GMT
Thanks for asking, Marianne. Sorry to keep you waiting for news. I tried writing a post earlier but had to stop.
Randolph Carter was a little superstar at the vets and the vet is amazing. But it isn't good news. The vet thinks he is very sick, despite there not being much change in his behaviour, and the green droppings and long beak do point to his liver.
The vet was so lovely. He asked me what was wrong and asked questions and took time to watch Randolph Carter in his carry box and we talked about his green droppings and that I thought he had been breathing a little faster than normal. The vet was very thorough when he examined him. He could feel Randolph Carter's keel bone so he is under weight which was a shock as he's always been a tubby budgie. He noticed his beak is a bit long but didn't want to cut it today. When he felt RC's abdomen there was definite swelling which may be his liver or possibly a tumour.
We discussed possible causes and he asked if we had other budgies and if they were well. He was concerned when we mentioned Dean Stockwell's feather loss, and straight away mention polyoma virus (french moult) or circovirus (beak and feather disease) both of which can be passed to adult budgies and although they don't usually cause symptoms of the virus in adults they can compromise the immune system leading to bacterial infection. I've been worried about this since I first noticed Dean Stockwell's feathers weren't growing back after he moulted in October, but by then it was too late as he'd already been downstairs with the others for 3 months. I didn't think about getting Dean Stockwell tested for anything before introducing them because there were no signs of trouble back in July.
So it's possible that Dean Stockwell has passed a virus on to Randolph Carter which has weakened his immune system, causing a bacterial infection, most likely Clamydia, which Randolph Carter may already have been carrying. Or it may be that Randolph Carter was already carrying something that has been exacerbated by the stress of having a new troublesome budgie around. Or it might be unrelated to Dean Stockwell's arrival. He's been with them for 6 months now. I forgot to mention to the vet that there was a mouse in the lounge last week. We've had mice on an off over the years without any trouble. The budgie food is safely stored so a mouse can't contaminate it but I should have mentioned it.
The vet talked us through all the options for diagnosis and treatment - x-rays, testing for virus and bacteria, treating for bacterial infection. He talked about the risk of giving anaesthetic for an x-ray and he did say they could do a CT scan which doesn't involve anaethetic but that's £750. He even suggested that we might want to have him put to sleep but I didn't consider that for a second, as he's been singing his head off all day. He certainly looked a lot more sick at the vets than he did when he was at home. He just sat at the bottom of the carrier and hardly moved. The vet asked if he been sitting on the bottom of the cage at home and was please when I said he was up on the perches like normal.
We've opted not to test for the viruses at the moment but may do so at a later date. It won't change anything with regard to treatment and we will not be introducing any new budgies to the flock. We are treating him for clamydia with doxycylin twice a day, as his symptoms do closely match. The vet said we should see an improvement quite quickly and if he seems to be getting better then the vet doesn't need to see him again and he'll need to complete the 6 week course of doxycyclin. The vet stressed that it's a guarded prognosis and that we may lose him, but said if it is a bacterial infection he should respond well to antibiotics. If it's a tumour then there is little we can do. He mentioned that surgery isn't really an option and we agreed, and he even mentioned that chemotherapy wasn't possible. He really did cover absolutely every option. I discussed my worry that if it is a tumour that Randolph Carter might be in pain and that I didn't want him to be suffering and he reassured me that he thought it was ok to try the antibiotics first. He gave Randolph Carter his first dose while we were there and showed me the correct dose etc. He obviously made it look so easy and Randolph Carter was being so passive. He gave us advice on how best to catch him to minimise stress, and suggested we dim the lights. That doesn't usually have much effect on my boys when we do that at bedtime. The just shout at me because they don't want to go to bed.
This was one of the many scenarios that I ran through my head over the past few days. If he has caught a virus from Dean Stockwell it is totally my fault. If he dies I will blame myself completely for introducing another bird. I'm still finding it hard to comprehend that he is so sick as he is his usual happy self, eating and drinking, singing and playing. He even came out of the cage for a little while this morning. I feel I've let him down by not taking him to the vets as soon as I noticed the green droppings on Friday and I should have noticed that he'd lost weight.
I didn't feel like the vet was judging us at all. He did stress that we should not introduce any more budgies to the flock. He let us talk as much as we wanted and didn't rush us. We discussed how Randolph Carter has never been able to fly well and wondered if that might have suggested a health problem. We said what a lovely budgie he is, and where all our unwanted budgies had come from. After we'd talked about Dexter and Dean Stockwell, the vet even said what great names they had. And he said Randolph Carter was a beautiful colour too. David also asked if changing their diet would help and we discussed that too. We must have spent about half an hour with the vet and when we left I thanked him and told him he'd been wonderful. I could have stayed talking to him for ages.
Randolph Carter was pleased to be home and straightaway started singing with his buddies. When I popped back in after my student had gone he was having a long chat with Dexter, probably telling him all about it. He was out for about 1 hour 40 minutes and coped really well. I let him have some millet spray when he got home. I don't expect it will do any harm and he needs feeding up. He was very excited to have some. Dexter had a little nibble too.
We got them to bed early tonight as Randolph Carter looked tired, and we will have to wake them up earlier than usual so Randolph Carter can have his antibiotics before David goes to work. I might be able to do it myself but don't want to risk it as it's so important that he has them. So they will have to start being early birds.
I'm sorry for such a very long post. Apologies for any typos. I've proof read a few times but I bet there are still mistakes. I should really get to bed as it's 1.30am but I don't know that I will sleep. Thank you for reading. Your help and support really does mean a lot to me.
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on Jan 29, 2020 1:57:12 GMT
So sorry it wasn't the best diagnosis. It does sound like you've found an excellent vet - good with the birds and the people who love them. I hope this course of treatment works well and its not something your others might have caught. Try not to beat yourself up - we all do it anyway with our birds (and other pets). Sending good wishes up!
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Post by criswell on Jan 29, 2020 2:13:05 GMT
Thank you tweetiepiesmom. I'm glad Randolph Carter doesn't seem to realise that he is sick. It would be much worse if the wasn't still doing all his favourite things. I couldn't wish for a better vet. He really was amazing.
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Post by criswell on Jan 29, 2020 9:42:14 GMT
The boys were a bit confused by the early wake up. Randolph Carter was not easy to catch but he took his medicine like a good boy. His dose is only 0.03ml which is literally just a drop. He was quiet for a while afterwards but has since been singing and playing and he's spent a fair bit of time eating seeds and he's had some basil. He's just been singing to Dexter and now he is having a nap and chattering in his sleep.
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Post by ffiscool on Jan 29, 2020 10:19:19 GMT
Great vet! I’m glad he’s taking his meds. I’m sure you will see a difference. You definitely cannot blame yourself
I’m glad he’s happy and his normal self, the poops in theory should go to normal?
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,743
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Jan 29, 2020 10:41:59 GMT
I'm sorry that Randolph Carter is so sick. I hope the meds help him.
The vet sounds really good.
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Post by criswell on Jan 29, 2020 11:51:49 GMT
Thank you ffiscool and Marianne Marlow. I pleased with how Randolph Carter is doing this morning. I left the heating on overnight so their room didn't go below 21C and I've turned it up a bit so it's now about 26C which he seems to like. I'm so glad to have found a good vet too. It's just over 4 years since our other good avian vet stopped consulting and it's a relief to have another one. Although this is the first time we've been to this new branch the receptionist used to work at the other branch of the practice that we used to go. She recognised us even though it's been a few years, as we were sometimes there twice a month when we had lots of gerbils with teeth troubles. She is really lovely and was so sympathetic about Randolph Carter. She is always very upset when the news isn't good and was really lovely on days when we had to take one of our little friends to be put to sleep. So it was really nice catching up with her too. I had to tell her how pleased I was with the new vet and how excellent I think he is. And I also couldn't resist saying that I wasn't very happy with the other vet we'd been seeing. She used to work for this practice so the receptionist knows her quite well. I get the feeling that she didn't leave on the best of terms, although no one has actually said.
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Post by samwiseg on Jan 29, 2020 12:27:24 GMT
You are doing everything for Randolph and I bet he knows it too, hence him behaving normally bless him!
You ate doing great and totally understand the weakened immune system as I think this happened with my birds Kip and then Marley. Even though you quarantine sometimes these things are unavoidable.
Good luck and hope Randolph improves x
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Post by criswell on Jan 29, 2020 14:11:40 GMT
Thanks samwiseg. I was thinking about your boys this morning. I guess the only way to be truly safe is to have new birds tested for the two viruses and Clamydia and that's not cheap and not everyone has access to a good vet. The Clamydia tests aren't 100% accurate either. And there are probably loads of other things they could pass on. I will have to keep such a close eye on them all in the future for any sign that could signal an illness, and as lots of you on here have recommended I will be weighing them regularly. I know I should have been doing that already. I've found the scales I had for my gerbils and they are in the lounge ready to start the weighings. The vet weighed Randolph Carter yesterday and he's 66g even though the vet could feel his keel bone but he's a big budgie. I will weigh him tonight as my scales might differ from the vets. I'll get the other two on the scales soon too.
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Apr 20, 2024 5:55:45 GMT
Deleted
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 14:15:38 GMT
criswell I used to weigh Munchy using a set of kitchen scales and a small free-standing perch. Alas I don't have that perch any more. The weekly weigh was part of our routine. Not sure I'd convince Peri to sit on an appropriate perch for long enough, so maybe I do like I saw some bird ringers do once and put them upside down into a small pot! That was quite a sight! Fingers and wings crossed for Randolph Carter! And hopefully neither of the others has picked up anything.
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Post by clt80 on Jan 29, 2020 15:16:47 GMT
Oh I'm so sorry criswell. Please don't blame yourself, you have done nothing wrong. Hugs.
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