French moult or something else??

[sweetpea]

Hello all. Lennie has been unable to fly for well over a year now. Though he grows new wing feathers, he never gets a full complement of wing feathers at any one time & most of the time he has one wing shorter than the other. Recent moulted feathers have been like the attached. Any thoughts on what this could be??





I have read up about PBFD & French Moult but my brain doesn't seem to make much sense of it all. I gather they have different causes though may present similar.

[Marianne Marlow]

I'm not sure it's french moult or PBFD. But does look like some sort of feather abnormality.

Roswell had one wing where all the flights grew through like this and he stopped being able to fly. Also he mutilated the feathers after the loss of his friend Jerry.

skysmum has some experience of French Moult, let's see what she thinks.

[criswell]

Dean Stockwell's feathers look like the second photo. We've not had him tested for FM or PBFD but the vet is pretty certain he has one of them after seeing him. We just don't know which of the two viruses he has. He's a very scruffy little thing at the moment and he's lost all the blue feathers on the lower half of his body, so that part is white. The tail feathers he grew earlier in the year didn't get full length and they are very weak and scruffy looking. Luckily he is very small and light so he can flutter about a little bit and doesn't plummet to the ground but it does make me sad that he can't fly.

[sweetpea]

May 11, 2020 21:58:31 GMT Marianne Marlow said:

I'm not sure it's french moult or PBFD. But does look like some sort of feather abnormality.

Roswell had one wing where all the flights grew through like this and he stopped being able to fly. Also he mutilated the feathers after the loss of his friend Jerry.

skysmum has some experience of French Moult, let's see what she thinks.

Yes, there's definitely something going on.

I have wondered whether Lennie is damaging the feathers himself, as you say Roswell did, but I'm more inclined to think that he is chewing them in frustration, rather than being the cause. Otherwise, it certainly sounds similar to Roswell's experience with one wing affected more than the other.

[sweetpea]

May 11, 2020 22:12:56 GMT criswell said:

Dean Stockwell's feathers look like the second photo. We've not had him tested for FM or PBFD but the vet is pretty certain he has one of them after seeing him. We just don't know which of the two viruses he has. He's a very scruffy little thing at the moment and he's lost all the blue feathers on the lower half of his body, so that part is white. The tail feathers he grew earlier in the year didn't get full length and they are very weak and scruffy looking. Luckily he is very small and light so he can flutter about a little bit and doesn't plummet to the ground but it does make me sad that he can't fly.

Poor little Dean Stockwell. I'm sure the inability to fly properly affects them mentally. It is sad when they lose that ability. Lennie used to be a very good flier but now he rarely bothers as it upsets him when he lands somewhere he wasn't expecting. Unlike Dean Stockwell, Lennie has put on weight. At least with Dalai around he was busy, busy, busy, running around after him but now it seems his only exercise is eating!

[criswell]

Dean Stockwell keeps himself very busy even though he can't fly and he does like to grip on to a perch and have a really good flap about. He's always doing something - pestering the others, playing with his bell, squawking etc. I don't think he's especially underweight as his keel bone isn't particular prominent but he is really small. He's an absolute midget next to Randolph Carter. He was a really good flier before he lost his feather too. He has company at home all the time as Randolph Carter isn't keen on flying even though he does have all his feathers. I agree that not being able to fly does have an effect on them and it is sad. The vet that saw Dean Stockwell feels quite passionate that all budgie breeding stock should be tested for both of the virus as so many budgies are carrying them now. But it would be hard to enforce especially for hobby and accidental breeders.

Lennie must really miss Dalai xxx

[samwiseg]

How old is Dalai sweetpea? As French Moult doesn't always appear early on in a budgies life. The feathers look very similar to that of Nubby but he is only mildly FM

[Marianne Marlow]

May 12, 2020 9:58:27 GMT samwiseg said:

How old is Dalai sweetpea? As French Moult doesn't always appear early on in a budgies life. The feathers look very similar to that of Nubby but he is only mildly FM

It's Lennie. Dalai passed away unfortunately.

[samwiseg]

May 12, 2020 10:21:14 GMT Marianne Marlow said:

May 12, 2020 9:58:27 GMT samwiseg said:

How old is Dalai sweetpea? As French Moult doesn't always appear early on in a budgies life. The feathers look very similar to that of Nubby but he is only mildly FM

It's Lennie. Dalai passed away unfortunately.

Sorry, I meant Lennie (lockdown moment lol)!

[skysmum]

I can't remember how long you have had Lennie sweetpea , have you ever treated them with Ivermectin? . I'ts just a thought and i'm not for one moment saying this it what it is but when i blow up the pictures it looks to be a uniformed chewing across the same point with each feather. Just a long shot but feather mites came to my mind of course if you have treated them in the past this wouldn't be the case but worth a try if you haven't.

If you rule this out i would certainly go with FM it's very similar in appearance, i dont think it's PBFD. Stress can bring FM out at anytime if they have the virus in their system, could you recall the start of it with a particular incident maybe.

[sweetpea]

May 12, 2020 9:58:27 GMT samwiseg said:

How old is Dalai sweetpea? As French Moult doesn't always appear early on in a budgies life. The feathers look very similar to that of Nubby but he is only mildly FM

Lennie is about 3.5 years old. He hasn't been flying for a year. How is Nubbs getting on? Can he fly at all?

[sweetpea]

May 12, 2020 8:26:56 GMT criswell said:

Dean Stockwell keeps himself very busy even though he can't fly and he does like to grip on to a perch and have a really good flap about. He's always doing something - pestering the others, playing with his bell, squawking etc. I don't think he's especially underweight as his keel bone isn't particular prominent but he is really small. He's an absolute midget next to Randolph Carter. He was a really good flier before he lost his feather too. He has company at home all the time as Randolph Carter isn't keen on flying even though he does have all his feathers. I agree that not being able to fly does have an effect on them and it is sad. The vet that saw Dean Stockwell feels quite passionate that all budgie breeding stock should be tested for both of the virus as so many budgies are carrying them now. But it would be hard to enforce especially for hobby and accidental breeders.

Lennie must really miss Dalai xxx

Lennie does that mad flap whilst gripping the perch too. I cheer loudly when he does that! It must be extra hard if they used to be a good flier. Like Randolph Carter, Perry has always been a bit lazy on the flying front, certainly compared to Lennie.

I know that I still miss Dalai. Perhaps we all do. Dalai dictated the mood & was in charge so it's very different without him. Both P&L looked up to Dalai but Lennie absolutely adored him.

[sweetpea]

May 12, 2020 11:14:30 GMT skysmum said:

I can't remember how long you have had Lennie sweetpea , have you ever treated them with Ivermectin? . I'ts just a thought and i'm not for one moment saying this it what it is but when i blow up the pictures it looks to be a uniformed chewing across the same point with each feather. Just a long shot but feather mites came to my mind of course if you have treated them in the past this wouldn't be the case but worth a try if you haven't.

If you rule this out i would certainly go with FM it's very similar in appearance, i dont think it's PBFD. Stress can bring FM out at anytime if they have the virus in their system, could you recall the start of it with a particular incident maybe.

Lennie is about 3.5 years old (same as Perry). There were treated with Ivermectin when I got them, so that would have been back in 2016. Feather mites hadn't occurred to me. I just had a quick google. He hasn't been restless or behaving like he has something irritating on him. They have a white sheet on the back of their cage but I haven't seen any signs of mites on it. That said, it doesn't mean it's not possible. I might just treat them, to be on the safe side. Although is there any way they could pick up mites since 2016, given they have just lived with Bezukhov & Dalai (not known to have mites)?

Lennie has always been a bit of a worrywart so stress could easily be a factor (if it is FM). He hasn't been able to fly for about a year &, checking my records, the vet examined him last July & said he had quite a few missing flight feathers & just put it down to moult problems. She obviously didn't see any feather abnormalities at that point.

[samwiseg]

May 12, 2020 23:17:23 GMT sweetpea said:

May 12, 2020 9:58:27 GMT samwiseg said:

How old is Dalai sweetpea? As French Moult doesn't always appear early on in a budgies life. The feathers look very similar to that of Nubby but he is only mildly FM

Lennie is about 3.5 years old. He hasn't been flying for a year. How is Nubbs getting on? Can he fly at all?

Well, he does fly..a bit sometimes. He's not a very strong flyer but he may attempt it now and again.

Sometimes though when he is going through one of his moults or feather issues he will just plummet.

He did in fact do this yesterday I was out of the room making coffee and my OH was delighted that he was able to rescue Nubbs by getting him to step up on his finger I have taught Nubby to do this with me but the OH didn't know if he would be agreeable with the him (as usually he has nothing to do with the buds)

So not only was Nubbs pleased with himself, the OH was too

I hope Lennie improves a bit in someway, and as long as he is happy and can get around without hurting himself x

[sweetpea]

May 13, 2020 8:54:43 GMT samwiseg said:

May 12, 2020 23:17:23 GMT sweetpea said:

Lennie is about 3.5 years old. He hasn't been flying for a year. How is Nubbs getting on? Can he fly at all?

Well, he does fly..a bit sometimes. He's not a very strong flyer but he may attempt it now and again.

Sometimes though when he is going through one of his moults or feather issues he will just plummet.

He did in fact do this yesterday I was out of the room making coffee and my OH was delighted that he was able to rescue Nubbs by getting him to step up on his finger I have taught Nubby to do this with me but the OH didn't know if he would be agreeable with the him (as usually he has nothing to do with the buds)

So not only was Nubbs pleased with himself, the OH was too

I hope Lennie improves a bit in someway, and as long as he is happy and can get around without hurting himself x

It sounds like Nubbs is adapting well. And your OH too!
Lennie won't step up (too suspicious & worried!) but if he lands on the floor he might step onto my open palm (familiar as that's how he gets his millet) but then attempts to fly off again. I have learnt to just cup him gently with my other hand & transport him back to the cage. But, like Nubbs, he is aware of his limitations, so these incidents don't happen often.