Introducing second budgie worries

[birb]

Hi everyone,

We have had a female budgie for 2 years now and recently choose to introduce a second (probably male) budgie so they can have some company. First we separated the two birds in their own cages. Then we slowly positioned the cages closer to each other until they stood next to each other. The two birds often went looking for each other and eventually even started eating at the same time.

Fast forward to last week: We opened the cages and the new bird went inside the cage of the older bird (out of free will, curiousity)
This went very well without any struggles, until yesterday. Yesterday in the evening when we were off to bed i heard a scream from the cage and saw that there were 5 wingfeathers on the ground (the new bird only has one full wing left now).
I do not know if this is because of a first molt, or a fight or something like that.

Today the new bird is very silent and tired and when i was cleaning the cage the birds jumped in the side of the cage and there it looked like that the old budgie was picking at the other wing of the new budgie.
Can it be that the old budgie plucked out 4-5 feathers of the new budgie at the same time?
What can we do about this situation?

[luvmybirds]

Sounds like a hard time.

I would suggest putting them is separate cages but still next to each other so that they can get used to the others precence again. Separate outside cage times would also be good. Something similar happens to my budgies when I was introducing them to each other, just give them more time in their own cages, own playtimes and own personal space. If it goes well then introduce them again.

I'm not an expert, just some of my ideas, let's see what the staff say!

[elysianblight]

Is the female tame enough for you to examine for wounds?
Can you find or think of anything in the cage that she might have gotten caught on?
Do you remember hearing any other noises before the scream?

Geez, that is so rough
My two squabble, and once in awhile one has pushed the other off a perch (not sure if it was intentional or not) - but there is usually a build up of some kind. Loud chatter, chipmunk noises, rapid squeaks.. something before the "ack I'm falling!" yelp.

Mine have never plucked or injured each other so I don't know if they can typically take 4-5 feathers off at once.. sounds like a lot though!
They groom each other, so part of me wonders if she was injured by something in the cage and the other bird "picking" at it is trying to preen the area? But yeah, if there is any chance he did it.. you gotta keep them apart..


I *can* say they do not come off in bunches like that during a molt. And they don't scream because of it. So something bad happened..

[birb]

Thank you for your comments!
It is the other way around. The female is the dominant one and the male lost the feathers.
Unfortunately they are not handtame. I can say however that there are no places in the cage where a wing could truly get stuck (no narrowing places). As for the sounds before the scream, i didn't hear a thing, but i was 2 rooms away when it happened..

The female sometimes makes the chipmunk noises and sometimes will pick once at the male and that seems to be all.
A lot of the time they sit quite close to each other and let each other be.
After the introduction the male was trying to come close to the female and the female was not too happy about that (probably because the female used to be alone). But until yesterday all was fine.

I wonder, since i do not think he has had his first molt, if it can have something to do with it. It does not seem logically, because if they suddenly loose 4-5 wingfeathers (therefor disable one wing) thay would not be likely to survive in the wild right?

Ok, then i think i will try and catch him and put him in a separate cage.

[elysianblight]

Oops, sorry I mixed them up!
Poor little guy. I hope he is okay.

I've definitely seen my two boys act like you describe above.. where one will sidle up and try to get close, and if they other isn't in the mood he does a chipmunk scold and lashes at his face with a beak. Never made contact though and thankfully haven't come to any injuries

Maybe your male didn't back off when she warned him.

[Hezz]

Sounds like the hen got aggressive. This is not a surprise to me, sorry. Hens are notoriously territorial and to let an "outsider" move in to her cage was not the smartest idea, regardless of how well they may seem to have been getting on. That's a bit like moving a squatter into the house of a woman used to living on her own - bad move. Also, what is the size of the cage the pair were in when the fight happened?

What you should have done is when you knew you were going to get another bird, obviously two cages are needed. New bird should have been quarantined away from the resident hen for four weeks before they were brought together in the same room. If a new cage was required, you put the hen into the smaller cage for the duration, the new bud gets the larger cage that you wish to house both in in due course. After quarantine and both birds spending some out of cage time together (out-of-cage time together is usually fine; this is not when the trouble starts as the other bird is able to move away from the aggressor) and both continuing to live in their respective cages, if there have been no incidences of aggression then you introduce the hen into the new bird's cage, not the other way around.

You may be able to rectify all this by starting again from scratch, getting a bigger new cage for the pair to eventually live in, setting it up as the new bird's residence for now.

[birb]

Yes, i was aware by reading through the forums that Females are known to be the more aggressive of the sexes.
The cage is 24 x 14 x 28 inches. It was one of the bigger cages in the animal store.
The new bird has been quarantined in a separate room, and afterwards we put the cage on the opposite side of the room. Then finally we moved the cages next to each other. We also changed the layout of the cage and changed the toys so they are new to both of them.
This is the first time that i hear that you need to put the female in a different cage instead of the new bird.
Do you think it will be the best idea to move the female to the second smaller cage?

[Hezz]

It is not about putting the hen into a different cage as such but having her move into a "new house" ie the BIGGER cage, rather than having someone else move into hers!. What part of the cage's dimensions is 28"? If it is height, then the cage is too small for two budgies, especially a territorial hen.

[birb]

Yes, i understood what you were trying to make clear. Do you think it is necessary to buy a third (new for both) cage?
Or will it suffice to just put the female in the small cage and leave the male in the cage that used to house the female?
Maybe the female will then grow a territory in the small cage, and therefor make for a less drastic reintroduction when they can both be placed in that cage again in a couple of weeks. Or do you recommend that i put the male back in the smaller cage?

Yes, 28 inches is the height. Hmm, kind of sad then that they do not sell bigger cages with good spaced bars in the store.. (10 different cages, all smaller or with wrong bars..).

[Hezz]

If that is the largest cage that you can source (have you tried on-line??) then I would suggest keep them separate, allowing them to come together outside the cage, unless you see definite signs of tolerance from the hen. I do think it might be too late to move the hen into the smaller cage and then later reintroduce her to the larger with the new resident in situ. I don't think a couple of weeks would be long enough. I might be wrong; she may not be as territorial as I imagine and will happily accept the move around. You won't know until you try it though, so be vigilant and don't leave them locked in the same cage for any amount of time without supervision for a good few weeks. Put them into their separate cages when you are not around to intervene and break up any fights.