Jul 29, 2020 23:25:25 GMT
hunterb
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 5
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Post by hunterb on Jul 29, 2020 23:33:07 GMT
Hello I'm new member and new in the budgie world I would like some help.pelase . I bought a couple of hagoromo and I would like to know to.produce hagoromo latino or spangel hagoromo since I do have normal Latino and normal sf and DF spangel please any advice
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Post by Hezz on Jul 29, 2020 23:56:24 GMT
I doubt there are many members here who even know what you are talking about, let alone how to breed one. Why don't you look on line for a group specifically breeding budgies with these weird genes? For those that might read this thread, hagoromo budgies are also known as "helicopter" budgies where odd groups of feathers on wings/back grown in different directions, not unlike the crested budgie who can look like Bo Jo (or the Trumpster) on a bad day.
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May 7, 2020 23:43:49 GMT
destinycall
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 65
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Post by destinycall on Jul 30, 2020 0:24:58 GMT
Do you mean lutino and spangle? This article might help you: www.ornitho-mutations.com/crests/crest1.htmCrested genes are complex and likely involve interaction between multiple genes. How many hagoromo birds do you have? Are any of them visible lutino or spangle? If not, I would recommend starting off by breeding hagoromo to hagomoro and see the results. With luck, you will get some hagoromo offspring. And if you are very lucky you might even discover that your male hagomoro is split to lutino, but it is unlikely. At that point, I would try breeding hagomoro to a double factor spangle. The result will be single factor spangles with some visibly crested birds. If you have a male lutino, you could then try breeding him to one of the female offspring that is both crested and spangled, if you managed to get any. It will likely take many attempts. From what I've heard, hagomoro only produce 15-20% visibly crested birds and to be a "true" hagomoro requires a very specific set of genes. Out-crossing for two other mutations will likely mess up the appearance in unexpected ways, so you will end up with a very small number of correctly-marked birds. Ideally, you would want to have multiple unrelated breeding pairs of hagomoro to allow you to easily cross back to crested genes and improve your success rate. Working with a single breeding pair will also slow things down a lot as you wait to see the result of each pairing and then wait even longer for the offspring to reach maturity. It is still possible, but it is not an easy task, even for an experienced breeder. Take very good notes and get as much information as you can about the parentage of all your birds. It will save you a lot of time in the long run. And if you are serious about breeding, you should learn as much as you can about budgie husbandry, so you can take proper care of all your birds and babies.
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Post by yellowfacedviolet on Jul 30, 2020 4:01:47 GMT
I know very little about hagoromo genetics but destinycall has given you sound advice about how to go about adding the ino and spangle mutations, and excellent advice about pursuing this endeavor.
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Mar 29, 2024 10:31:53 GMT
Deleted
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 5:03:11 GMT
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Post by blue48 on Jul 30, 2020 12:35:57 GMT
I doubt there are many members here who even know what you are talking about, let alone how to breed one. Why don't you look on line for a group specifically breeding budgies with these weird genes? For those that might read this thread, hagoromo budgies are also known as "helicopter" budgies where odd groups of feathers on wings/back grown in different directions, not unlike the crested budgie who can look like Bo Jo (or the Trumpster) on a bad day. The breeder where BertieB came from breeds crested budgies too. Funny looking things.
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Jun 21, 2020 22:14:31 GMT
tretinker
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 41
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Post by tretinker on Jul 30, 2020 20:47:10 GMT
Wow if I had seen these in a pet shop or with breeder I would have thought they were ill
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May 7, 2020 23:43:49 GMT
destinycall
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 65
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Post by destinycall on Jul 31, 2020 2:10:14 GMT
I just realized I made a mistake. I was thinking about how to go about breeding a bird that has hagoromo, spangle, and ino genes, but I overlooked something very obvious. There is no point in achieving that combination because a SF spangle ino is going to look like a regular ino. A yellow bird has no visible patterning. I feel silly. :-(
Anyways, the first part of my earlier post is still sound. Breed hagoromo to DF spangle to get SF spangle. Hopefully some offspring will be hagomoro. Then pick the best of the offspring and breed to an unrelated hagoromo. Breeding crest patterns is a bit of a gamble so if you have more hagoromo, that will improve your odds of success and the health of your birds. Getting spangled hagoromo should be relatively "easy", except for the inherent trickiness of working with crested genetics.
For breeding lutino hagoromo, you want a female hagoromo and a male lutino. That is because the ino gene is recessive sex-linked so a male has two ino genes while a girl only has one. Think of it like double and single factor spangles. You want more copies of the gene to increase the odds of your offspring displaying the desired trait. So breeding a male ensures all offspring will either be lutino and female or split for ino and male. At this point, you will just need to cross your fingers and hope for a female hagoromo. She will be lutino also. If you get a MALE hagoromo from this pairing, breed him to a female lutino for even more lutino offspring, but a smaller chance of being crested. Cross-back to unrelated hagoromo if you get some nice male offspring that are not crested. They can contribute one ino gene, so you might get lucky.
Breeding for sex linked traits is more complex due to the gender dynamics. It is easier to do if you have more birds. And again ... note-keeping is critical so you can keep track of each generation and which birds are carrying hidden recessive genes.
It is quite likely that after you get crested birds with spangle or ino genes, you will still have trouble reproducing the "helicopter bird" appearance of the hagoromo. Crests can be quite varied even between birds with the same parents. It is sort of like trying to reproduce a particular pattern of pied coloring.
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Post by yellowfacedviolet on Jul 31, 2020 3:47:19 GMT
I think the original poster was asking how to achieve ino hagoromo and spangle hagoromo, not a combination of both mutations added to hagoromo, so that part of your advice was right on the money.
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Jul 29, 2020 23:25:25 GMT
hunterb
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 5
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Post by hunterb on Jul 31, 2020 9:40:16 GMT
I think the original poster was asking how to achieve ino hagoromo and spangle hagoromo, not a combination of both mutations added to hagoromo, so that part of your advice was right on the money. thank you for understanding me and for your comment
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Jul 29, 2020 23:25:25 GMT
hunterb
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 5
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Post by hunterb on Jul 31, 2020 9:41:07 GMT
I just realized I made a mistake. I was thinking about how to go about breeding a bird that has hagoromo, spangle, and ino genes, but I overlooked something very obvious. There is no point in achieving that combination because a SF spangle ino is going to look like a regular ino. A yellow bird has no visible patterning. I feel silly. :-( Anyways, the first part of my earlier post is still sound. Breed hagoromo to DF spangle to get SF spangle. Hopefully some offspring will be hagomoro. Then pick the best of the offspring and breed to an unrelated hagoromo. Breeding crest patterns is a bit of a gamble so if you have more hagoromo, that will improve your odds of success and the health of your birds. Getting spangled hagoromo should be relatively "easy", except for the inherent trickiness of working with crested genetics. For breeding lutino hagoromo, you want a female hagoromo and a male lutino. That is because the ino gene is recessive sex-linked so a male has two ino genes while a girl only has one. Think of it like double and single factor spangles. You want more copies of the gene to increase the odds of your offspring displaying the desired trait. So breeding a male ensures all offspring will either be lutino and female or split for ino and male. At this point, you will just need to cross your fingers and hope for a female hagoromo. She will be lutino also. If you get a MALE hagoromo from this pairing, breed him to a female lutino for even more lutino offspring, but a smaller chance of being crested. Cross-back to unrelated hagoromo if you get some nice male offspring that are not crested. They can contribute one ino gene, so you might get lucky. Breeding for sex linked traits is more complex due to the gender dynamics. It is easier to do if you have more birds. And again ... note-keeping is critical so you can keep track of each generation and which birds are carrying hidden recessive genes. It is quite likely that after you get crested birds with spangle or ino genes, you will still have trouble reproducing the "helicopter bird" appearance of the hagoromo. Crests can be quite varied even between birds with the same parents. It is sort of like trying to reproduce a particular pattern of pied coloring. thank you so much all what u said is true and u did understand me now correctly Is I'll try and start working with this method
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Post by yellowfacedviolet on Aug 1, 2020 4:33:16 GMT
No sooner do we start discussing hagoromo on this forum when one of my local avian specialty shops runs this announcement:
That's $650.00
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May 7, 2020 23:43:49 GMT
destinycall
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 65
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Post by destinycall on Aug 1, 2020 5:08:39 GMT
For a bird that looks like it is having a really bad hair day.
Heh.
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Jun 19, 2020 12:06:49 GMT
wardey
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 92
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Post by wardey on Aug 1, 2020 23:21:13 GMT
I thought €175 for Matilda was expensive 🤣
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Post by yellowfacedviolet on Aug 2, 2020 3:08:06 GMT
I thought €175 for Matilda was expensive 🤣
Apparently my local guy's price is a bargain. Look at this from a breeder's listing:
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