What to feed - again!

[tweetiepiesmom]

I was listening in on a webinar by an avian vet yesterday. She was talking about what to feed parrots and did talk about food needs for specific species. She is in the US and did say  pellets are good but talked about how much pellets vs other food for each species. One thing she said was that what you feed your bird should vary from day to day - don't give them the "buffet" every day otherwise they'll just choose their favorite and eat that. Made me wonder because I give it "all" to my guys every day. This is their feeding schedule:

First thing in the morning
Clean water
remove seed dish
give fresh sprouts
give food dish with freeze dried chop or sprouts or veggie mix
clip wheat or mixed grass inside cage
clip an herb or two inside cage (right now its basil and oregano because that's what I have growing)

Around noon
give new seeds + 25% pellets

Throughout the day
give fresh herbs when the others look very wilted

My question is should I be giving them that variety every day? The AV said not to do that. She said just like Sunday may be roast beef day and you don't serve that every day, do the same with your birds.

I have gotten a new seed mixture to try on my guys. The current mixture they like but it does have 8% fat and added sugar. It also has dehydrated veggies and fruits. Here's the front and back of the new seeds. It has no sugar but 10% fat. Which is better - lower fat plus sugar or higher fat and no sugar? I'm still looking around for that "perfect seed". 

[skysmum]

Wow there is a lot going on in there

just to name 3, groats, sunflower seeds and peanuts are not good especially on a daily basis.

Mine get Johnson and jeff which is 50% canary seed and three types of millet, they also have finch food, they get lots of fresh choices but not too much because this can upset tummys too.
I so wish we had a longer seeding grass season here because if i could just feed them a selection of grass seeds and nothing else i would, its the closest thing to what they would get in the wild.

[tweetiepiesmom]

Thanks skysmum, I know groats are not good but didn't know about the peanuts and sunflower seeds. The Johnston and Jeff is not available here. I was also looking at this seed. It has much lower fat. I'm not sure why all the brands here have all these additives.
www.amazon.com/Kaytee-Supreme-Bird-Food-Parakeets/dp/B0002AQMWS/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=0MLYeDMJYYn2U3lK0ijyyA&hsa_cr_id=5878383940301&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1

[skysmum]

That one looks to be the better option TPM , or possibly a finch food. I do realise that foods vary hugely in different countries, i really don't know why they feel the need to put so many additives and needless rubbish in, i think they think we will be impressed at everything they have filled the bag with but the first one would be like feeding them McDonalds every day in my opinion anyway

[tweetiepiesmom]

Oh my skysmum! I did give it to them today and neither was very keen on it. I'm still searching for the best seed I can get. I do have some grass growing. Since we have milder winters here, I'm hoping to get some seed heads but with the shorter daylight, I'm not sure how that will effect the grass growth.

[Hezz]

Maybe find a seed mix that suits and pull out any additives. There is nothing to say that you have to serve up exactly what is in the packet. I used to pull out the oats from the budgie mix that I fed, but was happy to find a finch mix that is almost the optimum budgie seed mix - 50% canary seed, 40% mixed (5) millets and the other 10% a range of other small parrot seeds. No oats, no sunflower, no sesame seeds, a few niger seeds in that remaining 10%. Nuts should only be as a treat for the larger parrots. Oils seeds no more than 5%, that includes sunflower, sesame, flax, niger, rapeseed etc.

Never feed a pet bird black sunflower seeds. I have seen their oil/fat content said to be 25%, but this gives a whole different perspective:
Black oil sunflower seeds will be about 17% protein, 44% fat and 24% neutral detergent fiber (NDF).
Striped sunflower seeds will be about 16% protein, 24% fat and 40% NDF
www.horsefeedblog.com/2014/08/feeding-sunflower-seeds-to-horses/#:~:text=Black%20oil%20sunflower%20seeds%20will,%25%20fat%20and%2040%25%20NDF.

[tweetiepiesmom]

I decided to give this one a try - Kaytee brand. Like Hezz says, its not a big deal to pull the oats out of the 2 Tbl or so that I give them everyday. The Kaytee brand is fairly common here and can be found in most pet stores. Don't know why I thought a common brand might not be as good as something that has to be ordered.   BTW, I got an answer on why feed companies add so much other vitamins, etc. to the seeds. They think the birds aren't getting enough in a regular diet and the theory is if they coat the seeds then the birds will get the vitamins when they hull the seeds to eat.

[mona]

I am just curious, if their seed mix brand can be changed all of a sudden. Or it has to be gradual?

[blue48]

Not sure if it's relevant, but when I brought BertieB home as a baby, the breeder gave me a jar full of seed, and told me to mix it with the seed I had brought a little a day so he got used to it. I suppose he was saying gradual is best, but that might just be for baby birds.

[tweetiepiesmom]

Yes, blue48 and mona the package directions say to mix with the existing seed, gradually increasing the amount of the new seed over a period of week until they get only the new seed.

[tweetiepiesmom]

I'm taking Hezz suggestion and will pick out the oat groats as I put the seeds in their cups but I need some help identifying what I should pick out. Below is a picture of the seeds. The larger long seeds are the oat groats - correct? And are the green ones the same but just coated with the "healthy" additive? Do you see anything else that I should pick out?

[Morgan]

Looks kinda like my bird seed but mine doesn’t have any pellets in it and has a bunch of dried fruit that I also pick most out because they’re full of sugar. The rest get soaked so a lot of the sugar is gone then - I actually have tasted it myself lol. I would pull out the green oats too because that looks like food dye, and can make your budgies poop turn green (or whatever color dye is being used) and make it hard to monitor for health issues.

Also I just learned that artificial vitamins can be really bad, not just for birds but for us humans too. They don’t work the same way in our bodies as natural vitamins and some species of parrots (e.g. eclectus) can actually be severely harmed by them.

tweetiepiesmom - you are in the LA area right? I think I read that in a different post you made. I’m from the SFV. Anyway, Volkman seed should be available someplace down there - it does have higher fat than ideal but the soaking should help with that, and beside the sugary fruit (which the soaking should also help, and the budgies also likely just won’t eat anyway) it’s the best quality I could find without any poor-quality pellets in it. No pellets at all so better for soaking.

Also, if you are interested in pellets at all because they’re convenient and your buds won’t be able to pick out their favorites... I just made a post about pellets in general and Harrison’s is ok, TOPS (if your birdies will eat them are better).

[tweetiepiesmom]

Thanks Morgan. I am in the LA area. I had been feeding my guys a mix of the Volkman parakeet and finch seeds since the finch seed doesn't have the oats. I didn't like seeing the high fat content and the sugar which is why I got the Kaytee brand - no sugar. The Volkman finch seed has the same high fat content as the parakeet seed but no oats - is it from the millet? If I rinse the Kaytee seeds, it should remove the "additives" and then I can pick out the oats? Hmmm, I've noticed some more green in Tweetie Pie's poops since I've been giving them the Kaytee. I've been mixing the Kaytee with the Volkman to get then used to it. I initially didn't get the Kaytee because every pet store carries it and I thought "how good can it be". Am I a snob?

I have beat my head against the wall with the pellets! I've tried Zupreem, Tops, Psittacus brands which were all touted to be great. Buddy will nibble but Tweetie Pie will have none of it! I just got the new Lefeber brand with tropical fruits which they claim (of course) is beneficial to budgies. Again Buddy nibbles it but not Tweetie Pie. I'm torn about the issue of whether they need pellets if they have good seed and are eating their veggies.

My guys don't seem to like "wet" stuff. They eat freeze dried chop and sprouts and sprouts I make for them. They love grasses and basil and nibble other herbs and leafy stuff I give them. I think they are getting a balanced diet. I just need to convince myself that they are getting a healthy seed and decide "pellets or no pellets". It doesn't help that the avian vet always lectures me about pellets.

I have a headache.

[Morgan]

Pellets are a relatively new thing (on the broad scale at least), and many budgies have been fine without them for many generations. Is there always something better out there? You betcha! But exhausting every possibility is probably impossible and would take over your life! So it’s really a personal thing I think. I think pellets are beneficial for my Monkey at least, because she does pick out all the oats first and got fat on the seeds - and it’ll be a while before I can make my own mix for them.

The sugar in the Volkman is only in the fruit, which budgies usually don’t eat anyway, and the soaking removes a lot of it. But I actually haven’t looked too much into the Kaytee brand myself either! I’m probably a snob too.

As far as the fat in the Volkman. My mix does contain quite a bit of oats, but also flax and canola/rapeseed can have a lot of fat. I think hemp also. But I’m banking on the soaking process removing some of that too. I also pick out as much of the oats and sunflower seeds as I have the patience for (with 8 keets). I don’t fully sprout my seeds now either because they have started to go bad faster with the much cooler weather. Hot and humid weather isn’t very good either but it’s usually not too humid where I live and the dry heat at least dries the seed up instead of letting it go sour. So I just soak and serve and maybe let them sit one day to sprout max.

Diluted apple cider vinegar to rinse the seeds before serving is another thing I just started doing too. On the other post about pellets I also included a link to a fresh diet guide that I think is fairly thorough.

I think if it’s giving you a headache take a break! I get a headache too and just stop for a bit and trust that they’re at least happy and healthy already. Then when some time has passed and it becomes interesting again I dive back into it. Just do the best you can and don’t stress to much. I think everyone on this site is already taking very good care of their feathered charges.

[Deleted]

I was debating today how many days to wait to sprout my seeds. Got some that have been on the wet tissue for two days, just starting to show signs of sprouting. By tomorrow they'll have grown exponentially.

Work is my difficulty with fresh food. I've only had fresh food spoil once, during the really hot weather this summer, but if I'm at work then I can't remove anything if it does spoil, so I need to decide whether to give anything other than dry seed on a work day.