Brown stain above cere

[mona]

Today morning, I have noticed a brown stain above Cookie's cere. Checked on any food colored toys or anything that could have caused it.. There are some wooden toys and a coconut shell, but it doesn't seem like the one from playing with toys..I don't think it was there yesterday. Here cere seems clear.. there's no discharge..

There are no irritants in their room, like any air freshener or disinfectant.. They have access to mineral block all the time.. They have just finished their moult.. She is not bobbing her tail or breathing heavily.. Hopping, singing, eating normally.. Is this abnormal?



















Cookie's overnight poop

[mona]

Since we have to relocate in 10 days, I'm already freaking out.. I wouldn't be able to keep them at my mom's house with her birdies and all the travel stress, if they are ill.

I have booked a tele/video consultation with a vet.. I was told he is an avian vet. I'm not sure about his credibility, but I'll share the prognosis over here. He told me to call after an hour and half.

I read old posts on the forum, talking about vitamin A deficiency (she eats lots of carrots & mineral block), moulting - they just finished their moult or a respiratory infection.. They have been sneezing the entire month after they drink water.. She has been perching on the top most perch for 50% time of day, since past 10 days or so. But, she is active, playing, flying around, eating cuttlefish bone, singing loudly.. I hope there's nothing serious.

[tweetiepiesmom]

Its a bit hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like she has pinnies above her cere and on her head. Could she be rubbing her cere area on a perch and its just brown from that? Hopefully its nothing unusual.

[mona]

This might be a clear image. I don't see any pin feathers.. not sure about rubbing also..


This is what the vet told me with a tele consultation:
* Apply Quadriderm ointment around the nostrils for 3days once. After 3rd day apply Virgin Coconut oil around the nostrils using ear bud. He said not applying it on her nose area might increase the fungal infection
* Start on Phexin pediatric syrup: 1ml mix in food for 4days
* Use Calcimax Syrup: 1ml mix water every day for 10days

He said the poop isn't consistent.. the green part and the urine is discolored (which I think could be also due to lot of green veggie consumption yesterday evening)..so he suspects some mild infection.



None of these medicines are actually made for birds, as I have checked it.. Should I trust the diagnosis? I don't have any avian vets around and this is the only avian vet contact I have.

Quadriderm ointment contains a component which is steriod and took my attention: Quadriderm RF cream is a combination of three medicines - Beclomethasone, Clotrimazole and Neomycin. It is used for the treatment of various skin conditions such as itching, allergies, redness and inflammation suspected to have a bacterial or fungal infection. Beclometasone is a *steroid* and has anti-inflammatory properties. Neomycin is an antibacterial agent and clotrimazole is an antifungal agent. It is also used in the treatment of ringworm infection, athlete's foot and tinea infections.

Phexin Syrup: Phexin 125 MG Syrup is a broad-spectrum antibiotic used to treat a variety of bacterial infections including skin, ear, and urinary tract infections, etc. This medicine is not recommended for use in case of a common cold, flu, or other viral infections since it is active against infections caused by certain bacterial species only.

Calcimax Syrup 200ml is used as mineral and vitamin supplement due to poor diet or certain illnesses

[Hezz]

Staining above the nares is most usually caused by a respiratory infection. That wasn’t mentioned at all? With the plethora of treatments, it sounds as though he is covering all bases.

[mona]

The vet didn't mention anything like that.. I'm just cross checking which one of these are also prescribed for birds.. if not the same name, the contents..

I'm so confused.. There are regular vet (not avian vet) in the city. Should I get my bird to them for a physical checkup?

They didn't have a bath since a long time.. I have tried spray bath with warm water.. and the discoloration is cleaned up as of now. I'm assuming if the issue is due to infection, it'll reappear today or tomorrow morning.. Should I separate Cookie and Breezie? Breezie seems alright..

[mona]

After freaking out for the entire day & blaming myself for not taking good care of them, I just saw Cookie shredding this bamboo ladder which is food colored.. and she has shredded the ones closer to brown shades.. Now, I'm thinking if it was just that..as tweetiepiesmom pointed out as well.. I didn't think about that, since they are never interested in ladders ever..

If it's respiratory illness, it will show up again above her cere.. right, Hezz?

[willowsmum]

mona, you are a brilliant budgie mum! Please don't beat yourself up, I don't think you could do more for them. Fingers crossed that the ladder is the culprit.

[ffiscool]

Bailey often had staining above his cere, think he still gets it? But I also thought vitamin A deficiency, took him to vets. I don’t think it was, it was pinnies, rubbing his head. I did though, give him I think Abidec - vitamin drops.

Thankfully you’ve seen what the cause is.

[blue48]

BertieB gets a bit of brown staining above his neres from time to time. I put multivitamin drops in the water, far more diluted than the bottle suggests. Just to try and make up for the lack of veggies really. I still offer veggies but the most either of them have is a nibble of basil.

[mona]

Thank you for the inputs ffiscool and blue48. I normally give them multivitamin once a fortnight. Will be giving it for a few days in a row now. Their feathers look pretty good though.. They eat carrots, beet, bell peppers, grasses, fresh plants, soft food, broccoli/spinach/coriander/mint/herb leaves sometimes..and trying new variety, so the vitamin deficiency thing baffles me.. it could be beyond my understanding..

Got the medicines the vet prescribed, just in case, if it's not the ladder. It took us a trip to the opposite end of the city to get one of the prescribed medicine, but we got it fortunately.. I also cross checked the contents of the medicines are prescribed to birds..confirmed with my sister, who is qualified & experienced with Pharma R&D. I'll see if the stain appears again tomorrow or day after tomorrow. I just hope it's the ladder.. it would be super stressful for her to travel, if her health is already compromised.

willowsmum I guess mom guilt is something I can never overcome. Non availability of an avian vet around, scares me anytime I think they are getting ill..

[willowsmum]

I think that those worries are completely understandable mona, especially with the additional stresses of your big move. You know your birdies so well though and you keep such a close eye on them that you'll be able to spot anything early.

Good luck with the move!

[Hezz]

With the amounts of fresh food these two eat, Vit A deficiency is the least likely cause of the staining. I very much doubt that the ladder is the culprit either - it looks to be typically natural pine-coloured to me, not dyed except for the rungs, and if it is some sort of dye, surely there would be staining around the sides of her beak as well??. Cleaning off the muck will give you some idea of when the spray happens the worst - whether that be over days, overnight, or rather random.

One of my birds has a chronic sinus issue which is at its worse during our wet season which is now. Because he has issues with only one side of his sinuses, he gets that staining only from one nostril. Three courses of AB’s didn’t clear it up for three reasons - 1) it is in the sinuses, 2) sinuses have very little blood supply so little way for the AB’s to get to the infection and 3) budgie pus is very thick, like cottage cheese, so very hard to remove from the cavity, leaving the chance of reinfection on the high side. Other respiratory infections are much easier to treat with AB’s.

[mona]

The ladder rungs has some food color, the rest of it is natural bamboo color..

The sides of the beak had very mild brown shade towards the top of the beak, but not as visible as the one above cere.. I think you are right.. it should have been a bit messy around the beak too, if ut was the ladder..

The brown stain was uniform over the cere over both the nostrils like a straight line.. I had cleaned it up yesterday afternoon and it hasn't reappeared till now.. I'm keeping an eye on her.. I'm probably going to start the antibiotic for three days from today. Post the antibiotic, would they need any natural or artificial antibiotic?

Also, a very dumb question: how much are they supposed to eat when there's Antibiotic mixed in their food..? Cookie ate seeds which had antibiotic mixed in it after a while from my hand..an amount close to half teaspoon.. If she doesn't eat it further now, would that be okay? They took the other supplement vet prescribed with water nicely..2 to 3 drops per bird..

[Morgan]

mona - My personal experience with a non-avian vet was pretty sub-par, but if all else fails and there is one who has a real interest in bird health you could get lucky.

To answer your last question, if there is medicine that goes in their water you have to stop feeding any fresh foods for the duration of treatment, so their only water source is the medicated water - so you know they will drink it. Some birds won’t drink medicated water though and can become dehydrated so keep a good eye on them, as you always do! For the medicine in the food, what are the instructions? If it says to mix a certain amount of meds into a certain amount of food and feed freely, then just let them eat what they will. If you have meds in the water at the same time make sure the food-meds are mixed into a dry food (like dry seed) that they will eat readily. Sometimes birds won’t eat food with meds on it either, in which case you may just have to put it directly in their beak, but that dosage would probably have to be figured out by a vet. If you have any additional info/questions about that we might be able to help better.

It looks like some of those medications are for a fungal infection, so as Hezz said, looks like the vet is trying to cover all bases - possible bacterial infection or fungal infection. Also, giving antibiotics can make a bird become susceptible to fungal infections they don’t already have, so some vets prescribe both at the same time just to make sure a fungal infection doesn’t crop up because of the antibiotics.

How is she doing now?