Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 4, 2021 17:19:14 GMT
Hi folks, during the racing pigeon season here in Scotland I drive the transporter for a Federation. Having never really looked into the sport/hobby before being asked to drive but since started have faced a few angry people who had some quite strong views againt it. Just wondered how genuine bird people like yourselfs feel about the sport/hobby, thanks
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Post by ariella on May 4, 2021 21:42:54 GMT
For me, I think there are pigeon fanciers who genuinely love and look after their pigeons (Jack Duckworth style) and the birds enjoy racing. That said, there are those who take part in various practices that don’t sit well with me such as widowing and especially taking out the slower pigeons by air rifle or snapping their necks. I can’t comprehend that a bird owner who love their birds could do that and I would hope that would be the minority of keepers but I don’t know enough about it to say for sure. Am I correct that there is a loss of about 75% of birds and this is accepted and expected in races over the channel to and from France and Spain? I like to have a balanced view of all things but animal welfare has always been my priority when debating animal management - something my eldest son and I don’t see eye to eye on. I completely understand that animals need to be culled for estate management but only if it’s done humanely as possible. As for bloodsports, I’m not a fan and so I’m not a supporter of racing in general, greyhounds for example, so I would probably not want to support pigeon racing either.
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 4, 2021 23:31:02 GMT
Hi ariella and thanks for your comments, of the many fanciers I have met up and down the UK the majority are just as you described and from what i've seen genuinely care for their birds very well. Yes certain practises which as a bird keeper of nearly 20yrs myself I find hard to understand sadly do take place, although never heard of any being shot by an air rifle unless referencing the accusation made during the peta investigation. Losses on channel races will be higher than inland ones because of the extra distance involved and the crossing of the water but I would have to disagree, especially for the fanciers I've spoken to that its accepted and expected to lose that high a percentage of birds per race. Over the season the average loss in the scottish lofts is around 50-60% thats during training and racing. Thanks again for your comments and fully understand your views.
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Post by Hezz on May 4, 2021 23:50:15 GMT
It’s not something I have any real knowledge of so no comment, critical or otherwise, from me.
The homestead, where I grew up, is pretty remote and it wasn’t unusual for a pigeon to take a break on our roof, presumably blown off-course. As a kid I often wondered if (hoped) they had found their way home.
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Post by samwiseg on May 5, 2021 6:15:13 GMT
Perhaps I am being a tad naïve but what sort of strong views?
What i mean is do people think they are mistreated in some way then?
I'm from Kent and we have many lofts with racing pigeons around our area and the people who own them treat them so well.
My OH used to pass one on his work route, chat with the owner and see the pigeons too and they kept them beautifully!
Or is it due to them flying long distances?
Perhaps the people giving the criticism are not well informed about the hobby.
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Post by ariella on May 5, 2021 6:38:25 GMT
Hi ariella and thanks for your comments, of the many fanciers I have met up and down the UK the majority are just as you described and from what i've seen genuinely care for their birds very well. Yes certain practises which as a bird keeper of nearly 20yrs myself I find hard to understand sadly do take place, although never heard of any being shot by an air rifle unless referencing the accusation made during the peta investigation. Losses on channel races will be higher than inland ones because of the extra distance involved and the crossing of the water but I would have to disagree, especially for the fanciers I've spoken to that its accepted and expected to lose that high a percentage of birds per race. Over the season the average loss in the scottish lofts is around 50-60% thats during training and racing. Thanks again for your comments and fully understand your views. That’s really informative Ron, thank you. It’s always good to hear from the ones in the know so to speak and so 50-60% is a more understandable percentage of loss and you brought in the aspect of training too, which I hadn’t considered as part of the percentage. One of the breeders I bought three of my new budgies from breeds collared doves, fantails and pigeons too and we had a good chat about them - beautiful birds. What a shame they don’t have retirement homes for pigeons past their best rather than them being culled, but that’s just me being fanciful.
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 5, 2021 7:41:59 GMT
Hi Hezz, still happens a lot they stop for a wee rest, there are stray centres for lost/injured pigeons in England and 1 in Scotland that I visit to pick up birds for memebers in the fed and transport them back up the road, each bird has to have identifying rings so can be returned to owner , many now have an extra ring with the fanciers phone mumber to directly contact and arrange to get the bird taken home.thanks for your comment
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 5, 2021 13:21:45 GMT
Hi samwiseg, the views range from the treatment in the lofts, the transportation to the races and the actual race. A lot of the criticism is from uninformed sources although its true there are instances that can not be called anything other than cruel but not all fanciers follow these practices, like any other sport involving animals to puppy breeding etc there are bad apples that give it a bad name. Would say from my own experience they are very uninformed about the transportation or certainly in our Federation, the usual accusations are they are crammed into small cages/crates for transportation with no water , overheating in the back of a lorry for long periods while being taken to the liberation point. Our Fed uses a specially designed for want of a better word box which is fitted on the back of a 7.5ton lorry,has racking for the crates, roller doors for liberating , air conditioning, lights, and carries a large water tank for water for the birds and a pump inside the box for filling the 3 drinkers, 2 built into the crate and 1 on the racking.On the longer journeys when liberating in England there are regular stops to give the birds a break from the jostling while driving and to give them fresh clean water.The race itself gets criticism mainly due to the number of pigeons which dont make it home mainly and I hear a lot about how the pigeons who get lost etc are that used to being fed by the fanciers then cant fend for themselves and starve to death yet from reading studies done many of the deaths were recorded up to a year after they were lost. I'll be down your way for a race from Maidstone in july, thanks for your comments
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on May 5, 2021 16:11:26 GMT
I really don't know much about the sport and so I reserve judgement/comments until I can comment based upon knowledge. Before my father was married, he raised homing pigeons. He said the contests they where in involved the pigeons flying to a place where they had a message put on their leg and then flying "home" to deliver the message. It was my father's love of birds that caused him to bring a little budgie home as a pet when I was young.
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 5, 2021 16:23:17 GMT
Hi Tweetie and thanks for commenting, yes heard that about those races with messages and also heard how before transporters they used to be basketed and put on the train to the liberation point and the station master would release them from the railway carriage at an agreed time the following morning
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Post by Marianne Marlow on May 5, 2021 22:51:36 GMT
As long as the birds are taken care of and not forced to do things they do not want to, there is no cruelty - I'm fine with pigeon racing.
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 5, 2021 23:20:53 GMT
Thanks Marianne, my views may have been slightly different if had'nt spent the last few years being involved and rather than see or hear about isolated incidents get a chance to see for myself. As for the birds its not a lie to say they seem to love it, they chitter awa when being loaded then almost like they know its time to settle for the journey go silent till I stop either to give them a break in the drive or if on a short race and reached the lib point then its to give them fresh water, they will have their drink a wee chitter awa again then settle for the night, usually I arrive at lib points anytime after 10 till maybe 1am at latest and just now as the mornings are still coldish we hold off libs till 7-730 but from 1st light they start getting noisy and it just gets louder when I start prepping for the lib right up until the doors start to open then they all go quiet, some of the fanciers think i'm mad cause i've been known to walk up and down past the crates giving them all a wee pep talk afore the off
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Post by samwiseg on May 10, 2021 8:59:43 GMT
I think with animal welfare and transportation there is always contraversy. Someone I know used to work for the Meat and Livestock Commission and had to deal with protesters about loading up sheep for transportation. The protesters were claiming that they were crammed in too much. The problem is when loading livestock, if you dont let them be farely close together in the trucks they fall and end up breaking bones. So again it does depend on certain circumtances and whether people are fullinformed.
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Post by Hezz on May 10, 2021 20:19:45 GMT
This is correct, Sam. I remember asking my father this question as a kid, when trucking sheep. The same applies to moving birds around as well; they act as buffers for each other.
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Oct 18, 2011 13:38:18 GMT
ron
Normal Violet
Posts: 130
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Post by ron on May 10, 2021 21:30:38 GMT
Yeah true Sam but I think a lot have no interest in being properly informed and to them transporting livestock is cruel in any way. We all have our views I suppose and be a boring world if we were all the same
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