Aug 10, 2012 20:35:25 GMT
fromjennie
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 4
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Post by fromjennie on Aug 10, 2012 21:32:18 GMT
Greta has a huge tumor on her head. It grew so fast from just a few ruffled feathers to what is now a growth larger than her head. Last week I took her to local vet. Blood samples from tumor sent away for analysis. Tried to rush them for results which came back inconclusive yesterday (after a 5 days). Got referral to avian veterinary surgeon for this morning. Didn't recommend it being removed "incredibly difficult" was told. Previous vet, although not avian specialist, had been positive about removal by surgery, so I went blank and returned home with her. Its not malignant, but doesn't reckon she'll survive. I feel I should have had her put to sleep there and then, but she's still quite active and eats/drinks etc. and flies up to her perch with her friends (they have free-range in a spare room). However, she's sleeping more during the daytime and the lump is causing her to droop her head when she dozes. Am I just prolonging the inevitable/ Should I go back Monday and have her put down. Vet said she'd not be in any "real pain" but possibly some discomfort. I'm hoping she'll die quite quickly at home with her buddies – has anyone experience of these benign tumors. Its under her skin tissue but is not one of those fatty ones - vet said its a 'sarcoma endoderma' but that sounds malignant to me?!! Was told it wasn't malignant but it could turn malignant. Would it be unfair to wait longer - she has still got quality of life at present. Is it unfair to wait until she worsens. Does anybody have a budgie that survived this operation to remove lump? Appreciate help. oh, she's only 3-and-a half years old.
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Post by Hezz on Aug 11, 2012 2:26:12 GMT
Hi Jenny, sorry to hear about your budgie. I really don't have a lot to offer you except sympathy, having been through losing a budgie to an abdo tumour earlier in the year. If Greta still has a good quality of life, and you will be the judge there, then allow her the rest of her days until her quality of life isn't there. That's my feeling, anyway. The trouble with any type of surgery with our little guys it that they are so small and any blood loss is a lot to them. I hope you get some more helpful answers, but I feel there isn't a lot that can be done for Greta. Look after her and make the most of the time you have. Poor Greta, I am feeling for you.
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Post by budgiefriend on Aug 11, 2012 2:36:47 GMT
Hugs to you and Greta. Let her enjoy being with her friends. I think she will let you know if it is time.
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Post by BudgiesBuddy on Aug 11, 2012 15:05:39 GMT
I know it is difficult for both of you. My best wishes are with you.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:20:14 GMT
sweetie
Normal Green
My Sweetie
Posts: 454
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Post by sweetie on Aug 11, 2012 16:42:13 GMT
So sorry to read this, I agree with the others, you know wr beat and if in your heart you know she is not suffering let her live as long as possible, you will know when it's time to make the decision for her own good. I hope you enjoy your time together and you will do the right thing by her I'm sure x
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Post by Rachael Kellett on Aug 11, 2012 17:13:17 GMT
Hello Jennie, welcome to the forum I have a budgie, Milly, who is about 2 years old and just before christmas last year I took her to the vets because a large lump had developed pretty much overnight on her bottom. I thought she was egg bound but it turned out to be some type of tumour. I don't have a advantage on an avian vet so he couldn't tell me what type of tumour she has but I believe it to be non cancerous because 9 months down the line she is still with us. She eats, drinks, plays, argues with the other girl in the cage, and is her normal happy self The only difference it makes to her is that she can't fly as well as she used to. My point is that only you can make the choice about Greta because you can judge how she is coping and if she seems in pain or not. Personally i think that if she is still happy and eating, drinking, and playing with her friends then there is no rush to have her put to sleep. I know that at the end of the day you will do what is right for her x
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Aug 10, 2012 20:35:25 GMT
fromjennie
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 4
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Post by fromjennie on Aug 12, 2012 16:06:35 GMT
Thank you [font=Verdana]Hezz, budgiefriend, BudgiesBuddy, sweetie, and Rachael kellett[/font][/color] for your kind and supportive words of advice. I'm so glad you all made contact because it seems I was right (perhaps) to postpone final intervention for now. She is still eating and drinking and joining her friends but is having to rest her head on the perch when she takes a nap, due to the weight of the tumour. If she appears to be increasingly very burdened by the lump, yet not in peril, I'll consider seeing the vet again to see if he might reconsider operating Greta to remove it. Its heart-wrenching but I now she still has moments when shes animated and happy. I cup her in my hand each evening now, and stroke the top of her head (the part which is tumour free) and she muzzles her head into my fingers, chirps and seems comforted. Poor mite. I'll update you on her progress. My heartfelt thanks again. PS: I have a 'Milly' also Rachael — one of just 5 in total. Love the snap shots of your budgies — thats some family.... excellent !
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Post by budgiefriend on Aug 12, 2012 16:14:39 GMT
Greta is in your good hands, Jennie (in every possible way)! It's good that she has so much love.
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Post by Hezz on Aug 13, 2012 1:08:28 GMT
I am sure Greta knows you are looking out for her, Jennie. Enjoy your time together as much as possible.
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Jul 21, 2012 17:20:14 GMT
sweetie
Normal Green
My Sweetie
Posts: 454
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Post by sweetie on Aug 13, 2012 19:17:01 GMT
Hi, I agree with you I think if I was in your position as you I would urge the vet to reconsider operating if the only other option was losing her and she seemed strong enough to cope. Of course that's just me personally but I think if there was a chance of recovery I would take it xx
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Aug 10, 2012 20:35:25 GMT
fromjennie
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 4
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Post by fromjennie on Aug 17, 2012 17:07:11 GMT
Hello Sweetie, thanks for your post. The avian specialist I saw last week said that it would be "incredibly difficult" to remove, and said that in his opinion Greta should not be operated on. He then gave me a breakdown of the costs involved. You know how you sort of go blank at such times? Not so much to do with the cost but because you're faced with only one option, which at the time I was not expecting (I thought an op was still an option from what the regular vet had said). But having read your reply Sweetie, I'm going to email the avian vet again and urge him to reconsider. You see, I've booked Greta in for a final visit (at the regular vet), tomorrow for 10:10. She spends a lot of time resting her head on a horizontal surface doubtless to relieve the weight of the lump. I decided today that the balance had changed in her quality of life, HOWEVER, when she's not resting for extended periods she is quite perky. Hence the difficulty with all this. But having read your post I'll urge the avian spec. to reconsider. I'll email them now and call tomorrow morning. Thanks again. Many thanks.
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Post by Hezz on Aug 18, 2012 1:36:01 GMT
Jennie, I think the avian vet knows what he is talking about much better than the regular vet. I would be very reluctant to put a budgie in the position of having such a traumatic surgery being performed when there was little or no hope it would survive. Of course if you insist, you will find someone who will do it for you, but operating of a budgie isn't the same a operating on a cat or dog, or even a cockatoo. Regardless of the cost involved. Do some of your own research on the internet and find out more about budgies and surgery.
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Aug 10, 2012 20:35:25 GMT
fromjennie
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 4
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Post by fromjennie on Aug 25, 2012 13:45:56 GMT
hi hezz, Thanks Hezz, I didn't read your post before I left with Greta on Tuesday morning. But then, I would have taken her anyway. I'd looked furiously online for info but found very little. I'd searched these pages also. There comes a point as I'm sure we all know whereby the sense of doubt, angst, confusion and upset becomes overwhelming. Please not Hezz, that I had not insisted that they operate on Greta, I'd sent pictures for a second opinion. I'd been warned of the chances given my relative inexperience with budgies. Alas, hindsight — that wonderful thing... Had been a pretty traumatic week and I did ask the avian specialist to reconsider. The first vet was a regular vet (local), the second was an exotics specialist (who said he wouldn't proceed with the op) and the third (at same practice and the most 'titled' practitioner) was quite optimistic that Greta would survive the operation. I took Greta on Tuesday morning and we had a couple of hours in the car together before the vet opened. This would be the last moments we'd spend together — she survived the operation and the aneasthetic but died of clinical shock shortly after coming round. They'd tried to revive her but she'd lost too much blood in the op (apparently) to maintain her blood pressure. The specialist I saw that morning was even more qualified than the one I'd seen the week before, and had been optimistic saying he had removed big tumors on the head before. He said he was "surprised" by Greta dying after 'surviving' the op. So of course (with hindsight) I feel maybe the best thing would have been to put her down......... BUT that's only with the benefit of hindsight – that wonderful thing. I'm very grateful for Sweeties suggestion that I ask the vet to reconsider, because there was a chance she could survive, and the only other option would have been to put her down. The tumor was so large (and had grown at such an alarming rate) that she had to frequently rest her head on a horizontal surface, and it was tiring her out. Whilst I accept that many budgies apparently seem to be able to carry on with these subcutaneous tumors, Greta was struggling with the simple obstacle it presented, yet she was still quite distracted and lively at other times. The toss-up of waiting for her to become critically unwell, operate or put her to sleep, caused me turmoil and sleepless nights. It was only after seeing Sweeties post that I decided that I must give her her only chance of survival. Again, with hindsight (that stuff they don't bottle and sell) it would have been better to take her to the vet and be there with her when she was put to sleep. These ghastly options have caused me a large degree of torment this week... the thought of her opening her eyes at the vet after the op. being somewhere she never knew with people she never knew, and doubtless in some pain after the op has caused me to feel guilt and upset. I have even blamed myself for not being there when she awoke to say "Hi Greta! Its me and you're ok girl. I've come to take you back home" It might sound daft but maybe I should have asked to be there post op? Crazy I know and I doubt I'd have been allowed. On reading that posting, by Sweetie, my confusing (and horror at the expense of the operation) evaporated, and it occurred to me quite abruptly that enjoying our time together, watching Greta fade before having her put down would be unfair, given that she knew full well that she was not right. But most critically for me, was that despite the uncertainties, waiting to have her put down was denying her the chance of life. I didn't feel that I could deny her that — despite the hefty cost of the op. which I can ill-afford. I'll hopefully be better prepared if one of these lumps were ever to appear on another of my budgies. Thanks again, SWEETIE. Thank you Hezz. I'll take your advice do more research on the internet.
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Post by budgiefriend on Aug 25, 2012 18:18:48 GMT
Rest in Peace, dear sweet Greta. Keep her cute face and happy song close to your heart, and she will be with you forever, Jennie. You gave her a good life, filled with love. And you gave her every chance. She's watching over you now, saying, "Thank you. I love you too."
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Post by Hezz on Aug 26, 2012 1:48:03 GMT
You did the best you could, Jennie, with only Greta's best interests at heart. Yeah, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we can't live in the past, so chin up and remember you did all you could for Greta. The rate that a tumour can grow can be a scary thing.
Hindsight: Here is my experience of "if only I knew". Bluey's tumour was getting to the stage where he was finding it difficult to fly - the sheer weight of it was pulling him down, plus (probably) the strain it was putting on his organs. I had one option and that was to have the tumour drained as sometimes they surround themselves with heaps of fluid. So I had this done for him, BUT! what I hadn't had explained to me was that sometimes draining the tumour isn't a good thing - they replace the fluid very quickly, by pulling it from the rest of the bird's body. Poor Bluey had 10mls removed, he recovered initially but quite quickly lost his energy and was back to, if not worse than he was before. He lasted about another week or two after this. In hindsight, and if I had had all the information, I wouldn't have put him through it.
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