Aug 9, 2012 7:24:52 GMT
ruby 5
Normal Green
Posts: 418
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Post by ruby 5 on Dec 8, 2012 8:32:34 GMT
Please can someone tell me what causes Canker? I have been reading posts by outnumbered whose bird kiwi has it, it sounds horrendous. Is there anything that can prevent it?
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Post by Hezz on Dec 8, 2012 10:15:18 GMT
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Post by barrieshutt on Dec 8, 2012 10:20:14 GMT
i find many breeders do not take any notice when i tell them their budgies water is a killer , it is a haven for bacteria and parasites created by you the breeders and your budgies , all water containers must be sealed by using GLASS hampster water bottles ...................poop in water is a leathal mixture and a tiny parasite will invade all your budgies and without precautionary measures will slowly cause a long lingering death to your birds ........................HAVE I GOT ALL YOUR ATTENTION......................good , change water daily , soak your hampster water bottles in F10SC oncce a week , add the F10SC into a fine spray bottle and spray cage and contents weekly ......................in answer to your question Lesley " what causes Canker " the answer is we do ..............................supply thricho plus powder in all the birds water every 6 months
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Aug 27, 2012 20:57:32 GMT
annieones
Normal Green
Posts: 393
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Post by annieones on Dec 8, 2012 10:24:08 GMT
At want age should you first give it to babies Barrie. Thanks
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Post by barrieshutt on Dec 8, 2012 10:36:03 GMT
i treat the babies with ivermectin at 6-8 weeks ols and for canker atr approx 14 weeks old
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Aug 9, 2012 7:24:52 GMT
ruby 5
Normal Green
Posts: 418
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Post by ruby 5 on Dec 8, 2012 10:46:28 GMT
Thank you Barrie, yes you've certainly GOT MY ATTENTION all water dishes are in the bin and replaced
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Aug 9, 2012 7:24:52 GMT
ruby 5
Normal Green
Posts: 418
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Post by ruby 5 on Dec 8, 2012 10:49:43 GMT
Pheww.....has he gone? ;D scarey person that Barrie...........reminds me of my old head master ;D ;D ;D (only joking, of course)
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Aug 9, 2012 7:24:52 GMT
ruby 5
Normal Green
Posts: 418
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Post by ruby 5 on Dec 8, 2012 11:02:58 GMT
Thanks for the info hezz
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Aug 27, 2012 20:57:32 GMT
annieones
Normal Green
Posts: 393
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Post by annieones on Dec 8, 2012 11:28:34 GMT
Thanks Barrie. I will look into hamster water bottles today, I know wilko have them. Not sure what the babies will think of them but they do like to chew the swing metal so I think it may go down ok. Lol
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Post by barrieshutt on Dec 8, 2012 12:00:50 GMT
well done guys
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Nov 10, 2011 18:42:21 GMT
eve
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 52
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Post by eve on Dec 8, 2012 22:20:19 GMT
i find many breeders do not take any notice when i tell them their budgies water is a killer , it is a haven for bacteria and parasites created by you the breeders and your budgies , all water containers must be sealed by using GLASS hampster water bottles ...................poop in water is a leathal mixture and a tiny parasite will invade all your budgies and without precautionary measures will slowly cause a long lingering death to your birds ........................HAVE I GOT ALL YOUR ATTENTION......................good , change water daily , soak your hampster water bottles in F10SC oncce a week , add the F10SC into a fine spray bottle and spray cage and contents weekly ......................in answer to your question Lesley " what causes Canker " the answer is we do ..............................supply thricho plus powder in all the birds water every 6 months Thank you, barrie, for the info. I've just found a source here in the states and have ordered some. Since losing Billyboy last year (don't expect you to remember), I want to make sure I have all meds necessary on hand. Of course, his problem was r/t a fatty liver and the poor eating habits of his breeder. He was the breeder's favorite and was spoiled. So gentle....... I suffered with him.
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Feb 4, 2012 22:25:41 GMT
outnumbered
Normal Violet
Posts: 244
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Post by outnumbered on Dec 10, 2012 1:37:30 GMT
i find many breeders do not take any notice when i tell them their budgies water is a killer , it is a haven for bacteria and parasites created by you the breeders and your budgies , all water containers must be sealed by using GLASS hampster water bottles ...................poop in water is a leathal mixture and a tiny parasite will invade all your budgies and without precautionary measures will slowly cause a long lingering death to your birds ........................HAVE I GOT ALL YOUR ATTENTION......................good , change water daily , soak your hampster water bottles in F10SC oncce a week , add the F10SC into a fine spray bottle and spray cage and contents weekly ......................in answer to your question Lesley " what causes Canker " the answer is we do ..............................supply thricho plus powder in all the birds water every 6 months I have replaced my birds bowls with glass hamster bottles. I get what you are saying but my budgies each had 3 stainless steel bowls so I always had one to change over. I placed them very high up and I used to soak them in milton daily. There bowls were replaced twice daily breakfast and teatime and I rarely ever seen any poo in it. You obviously have more experience than me so I have taken your advice but it is very frustrating and upsetting when a vet tells you it is because of the lack of grit and another because of hygene. I washed my cage everyday single day and wiped the trays as soon as dirt appeared. There cage was next to my chair and I coudn't stand gulping down the digestives whilst staring at bird poo !! My head is spinnig with the reasons for this but I have thrown out everything from the cage toys, perches etc and ordered some fs10, so hopefully I wont be responsible for another death. Canker may kill quickly but it doesn't feel like it when you see them suffer.
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Post by Hezz on Dec 10, 2012 2:26:48 GMT
Outnumbered, don't beat yourself up about not doing enough for Kiwi. You took the poor fellow to the vet, who unfortunately gave you bad advice. If he had been given the necessary treatment in the first place, maybe, just maybe he would have pulled through. The reason we have vets is because they are supposed to know more. Hygiene isn't necessarily the cause of death either - you are obviously very dedicated to keeping the birds' environment clean. I asked before, how long had you had Kiwi? It is quite possible he had trichomonas before you got him, if he hadn't been with you very long.
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Feb 4, 2012 22:25:41 GMT
outnumbered
Normal Violet
Posts: 244
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Post by outnumbered on Dec 10, 2012 9:16:07 GMT
Thanks Hezz. I had kiwi about 18months and Lilly about 11 months. They were both fine before this the only problem was Lilly had french moult as a baby, the breeder told me this but I still took her as she had that something special she recovered quickly and you woudn't know it now. I am a big girl Hezz and can take crtitcism ;D I guess I am just terrified of this happening again and keep reading, hearing different stories and that is what is making me upset and very, very frustrated. When Kiwi was ill I also contacted a couple of local breeders to ask if they had any trico buy until mine got here, but nothing. One of them told me it could be metal poisoning and that cages from China are well known for being cheaply made. I told him mine was made in Italy but he explained how it may be made in italy but they import the parts from China How am i supposed to check all of this. I guess I am just emotional at the moment and in a little while everything will be clearer
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Nov 10, 2011 18:42:21 GMT
eve
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 52
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Post by eve on Dec 10, 2012 18:26:06 GMT
Thanks Hezz. I had kiwi about 18months and Lilly about 11 months. They were both fine before this the only problem was Lilly had french moult as a baby, the breeder told me this but I still took her as she had that something special she recovered quickly and you woudn't know it now. I am a big girl Hezz and can take crtitcism ;D I guess I am just terrified of this happening again and keep reading, hearing different stories and that is what is making me upset and very, very frustrated. When Kiwi was ill I also contacted a couple of local breeders to ask if they had any trico buy until mine got here, but nothing. One of them told me it could be metal poisoning and that cages from China are well known for being cheaply made. I told him mine was made in Italy but he explained how it may be made in italy but they import the parts from China How am i supposed to check all of this. I guess I am just emotional at the moment and in a little while everything will be clearer Outnumbered, I feel for you. I know the overwhelming pain, tears, and suffering when we lose one of our babes. I went through the same thing last year. I'm not a big expert on budgie diseases, but I have worked in the medical field for 20+ years. 1. This disease that Kiwi had is caused by a protozoa, which lives in moisture. There is no way that a metal cage can cause that unless it had been moist when you first used it and your birds came in contact with it at that time. I highly doubt that. That person was talking about metal poisoning which causes vomiting. Your little guy had a fishy smell......which means trich, not metal poisoning. (This is also a disease that humans catch from one another by one giving the other the gift of that particular protozoa, with the "giver' being a possible asymptomatic carrier for years.) 2. He probably had that when you got him, as those beasties can live for months in a bird/animal before becoming evident by symptoms. That's why using what Barrie said to use (upon getting a new bird and on 6 mos intervals), will take care of any latent beasties in your bird's system. 3. Unfortunately, not all breeders are knowledgeable about bird diseases.....they merely breed to sell. Neither are all vets knowledgeable. The best weapon is a knowledgeable owner.The man (a new breeder) I bought my Billyboy (last year) from fed him millet on a daily basis (I found out later), and which he insisted upon eating after we got him home when we were giving out treats. His begging for it was hard to deny. I wrongly had forgotten how fattening millet is, and yes I do think it is fattening. An autopsy showed that Billy died of a fatty liver which could have only been from the excessive millet he demanded and which we stupidly acquiesced to give him b/c of his begging for it. His other diet was seed sprouts, daily veggies, a balanced seed (Nederland's Vita Seed), Basil which I grew myself, dandelions and milk thistle (when available). When I called this man up to tell him that Billy was sick, he didn't even know what a 'budgie" was......he kept saying that Billy was a parakeet. (Parakeet is the name of a group of big to small species of parrots, of which "Budgie" is a variety of that group.) 3. You did everything you could to save your little bird. I agree with Hezz.... don't beat yourself up. You did everything you could to save him. I'm not too sure the meds would have helped even if you had gotten them. He was so far advanced. A lesson for us all. 4. Your little bird has taught many of us the need to keep items such as F10SC and Tricho Plus on hand. I think Barrie has on his site a first-aid kit to keep on hand as well. 5. Sanitation and preemptive use of Tricho is the best thing to keep this problem down, and it seems that you are already doing that. You just had a monster in your house that you were unaware of. I grieve for you and your fresh pain. Take care.
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