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Post by skysmum on Mar 5, 2014 22:44:09 GMT
Dr A looked at a nest box of youngsters feathers under a microscope, the one suffering FM was infested but the unaffected siblings had minimal mites. Four days of washing in a solution of Chloroxylenol and they were mite free, their feathers grew in and they didn't suffer from drastic feather loss again. Many breeders accept his theory because it accounts for many of the symptoms associated with FM.
Jo has had his first treatment today, i just want to see while i have him on his own if there is anything in this theory. Time will tell i guess.
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Post by skysmum on Mar 5, 2014 22:47:16 GMT
We must have been posting at the same time corie. Thank you for this info
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Apr 25, 2024 11:46:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 22:55:29 GMT
Your welcome Skysmum, all the best with your birdie.
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Post by stace on Mar 5, 2014 23:15:44 GMT
Just reading through some literature from my vet, who says that mites can sometimes be seen in FM nests, but rather than causing FM, they predispose susceptible nests to FM. Various disease or environmental stresses that impair immunity will, therefore, cause the FM virus that is already present but not active to come out in the nestlings.
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Post by skysmum on Mar 5, 2014 23:22:10 GMT
Thank you stace, it sure is a frustrating and confusing thing. But i like a challenge . I wish i still had my Microscope .
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Post by stace on Mar 5, 2014 23:32:30 GMT
Having had a little read about FM, skysmum, it seems that you may be able to halt the FM virus if you immediately implement a treatment as you've suggested in the nest so that the virus doesn't take hold. That would align with the theory you've read about the mites. However, once the young bird is infected and has grown, I can't see that something like a mite treatment would work. That is, the mites have caused the outbreak in the nests, not the continued disease in the adult bird. Depending on the age of infection in the nest, the FM will then be of varied severity in the adult bird. Earlier infection as a nestling will cause more severe FM symptoms later in life and reduce their immunity to other diseases. Later infected nestlings are less affected and may even regrow their feathers, plus they will remain healthy as adult birds apart from the damaged feathers.
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Post by starlingqueen on Mar 5, 2014 23:45:35 GMT
What do you think @corie ? It's not mites i have treated chicks at 7 days three weeks and 6 weeks with no prevail they still have the virus. My take on it is that most birds have the virus and they build a immunity to it, if you over breed your birds and alot of people do, the birds become stressed and as a result their immunity levels will drop, this is when the virus takes affect and is passed onto the chicks as their immunity levels are still developing. Every aviary/birdroom has it's own strain of FM, so when new stock is introduced you are bringing in a new stain of FM, now you have to wait about three months as the two FM strains mutate to become a new strain of FM. Now your birds are immune to the new strain of FM until you bring in new stock then the FM will mutate again. Is this documented anywhere @corie? I'd like to read it.
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Post by skysmum on Mar 5, 2014 23:45:53 GMT
He didn't have it in the nest, this im pretty sure of, none of the others were affected and he didn't show symptoms until he was around 2 years old, he had perfect feathers and flew well. It seemed to develop around the age of about 2 years which is even more confusing but would explain why he has been mildly affected and does manage to grow them in once a year, this time of year is the worse, after a big moult.
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Post by skysmum on Mar 5, 2014 23:47:54 GMT
SQ if you google, Hamilton and District BS French Moult, it will come up. Im useless at putting links in.
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Post by starlingqueen on Mar 5, 2014 23:49:38 GMT
SQ if you google, Hamilton and District BS French Moult, it will come up. Im useless at putting links in. Thanks skysmum, I'll have a look at that.
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Apr 25, 2024 11:46:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 0:29:52 GMT
It's not mites i have treated chicks at 7 days three weeks and 6 weeks with no prevail they still have the virus. My take on it is that most birds have the virus and they build a immunity to it, if you over breed your birds and alot of people do, the birds become stressed and as a result their immunity levels will drop, this is when the virus takes affect and is passed onto the chicks as their immunity levels are still developing. Every aviary/birdroom has it's own strain of FM, so when new stock is introduced you are bringing in a new stain of FM, now you have to wait about three months as the two FM strains mutate to become a new strain of FM. Now your birds are immune to the new strain of FM until you bring in new stock then the FM will mutate again. Is this documented anywhere @corie? I'd like to read it. No SQ , these are my findings that a lot of people concur with.
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Post by stace on Mar 6, 2014 0:55:51 GMT
He didn't have it in the nest, this im pretty sure of, none of the others were affected and he didn't show symptoms until he was around 2 years old, he had perfect feathers and flew well. It seemed to develop around the age of about 2 years which is even more confusing but would explain why he has been mildly affected and does manage to grow them in once a year, this time of year is the worse, after a big moult. Okay, still reading my vet's stuff….there's not much. From what I surmise, French Moult is something of a "catch-all" term, which is why sometimes it is referred to a Polyomavirus, Fledging Disease or also considered along with PBFD (beak and feather disease). The condition/cause of French Moult appears to be split between the 1) Polyomavirus and 2) poor feather quill strength due to genetic weakness or nutritional deficiency or infections. If Polyomavirus is the cause, the bird is infected in the nest through a carrier bird ( transmitted via the parent carrier or spread from the other carrier nests via mites, dust, dander, etc). If the FM is present later (in the flights or an older bird, i.e.,not nestling) it is likely to be poor feather quill strength (genetics, deficiency or other disease/infection cause). Feather cysts seem to be related to this adult scenario.
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Post by stace on Mar 6, 2014 1:01:56 GMT
It's not mites i have treated chicks at 7 days three weeks and 6 weeks with no prevail they still have the virus. My take on it is that most birds have the virus and they build a immunity to it, if you over breed your birds and alot of people do, the birds become stressed and as a result their immunity levels will drop, this is when the virus takes affect and is passed onto the chicks as their immunity levels are still developing. Every aviary/birdroom has it's own strain of FM, so when new stock is introduced you are bringing in a new stain of FM, now you have to wait about three months as the two FM strains mutate to become a new strain of FM. Now your birds are immune to the new strain of FM until you bring in new stock then the FM will mutate again. Is this documented anywhere @corie? I'd like to read it. As well as the stress conditions bringing out the virus and allowing it to take hold (just like the cold sore virus really), it seems that FM continues, (where it would usually be selected out in the wild) because the same condition that causes FM also shows up as lots of big feathers for show quality birds, so breeders keep on breeding from them.
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Post by BudgiesBuddy on Mar 6, 2014 2:59:44 GMT
skysmum, this thread is getting very informative, so I am editing the thread heading to make it easy for future searches
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Apr 25, 2024 11:46:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 8:24:47 GMT
Is it possible that mites could be a vector? Adult birds might not show symptoms of infection because their immune systems are stronger, so it's mostly chicks which catch it, and then it develops at times of stress? Perhaps the effort of regrowing feathers keeps the bird too weak to fight off the infection.
I like Corie's explanation. It makes sense, but until it's researched properly we won't know.
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