Help in defining type

[gtv1750]

I have a normal golden face blue male that I have bred with a yellow face blue Opaline pied hen (not certain on dominant or recessive), and have had a great mix of babies.

Have 3 chicks

2 * Cremino (not sure yet if pied or not or opaline), but dad must be split to Ino (bought not knowing parentage).

1* Golden face blue normal.

For the cremino, how would I know if they are opaline or not? Or is this only possible through next generation.breeding.

[Morgan]

Since your female is the only one who is opaline, and opaline is a recessive sex-linked trait, none of the offspring could be visually opaline, and only the males will be split for opaline.

This is because in birds, unlike mammals, females are the ones with two different sex chromosomes, while males have the same.

Your two ino chicks were possible because both parents are split for ino.

[Hezz]

Hens only need one opaline gene to show visually; cocks need two, so in my estimation any opaline you have from that mix is going to be a hen. Opaline is a sex linked gene, recessive only to normal.

I doubt you would be able to tell if your ino is until further breeding.

[Morgan]

Sept 23, 2020 0:30:55 GMT Hezz said:

Hens only need one opaline gene to show visually; cocks need two, so in my estimation any opaline you have from that mix is going to be a hen. Opaline is a sex linked gene, recessive only to normal.

I doubt you would be able to tell if your ino is until further breeding.

Because opaline is sex linked, only the male can pass one of his opaline chromosomes to a female offspring. Hens only need one opaline gene, but they can only inherit it from their father. For example: Females have different, let’s use XY, sex chromosomes. X has the opaline gene that can be inherited by her sons, so an opaline hen could be labeled like this: X(op)Y. Her mate is XX, he does not have any opaline genes. All sons will inherit one X from dad, not opaline, and one from mom, opaline - being split for opaline. All daughters will inherit one X from dad and one Y from mom - or else they wouldn’t be female! In science we use ZW for birds to differentiate from mammals (males are ZZ), but XY is used in aviculture because it’s easier to understand.

Edit: The punnet square didn’t format properly so here’s a link instead xD www.cutelittlebirdiesaviary.com/opaline-budgies.html

And correct that it is not recessive! My bad, dunno what I was thinking

[Hezz]

You are correct, I had it back to front - an opaline hen and normal cock, any offspring will be cocks, not hens, unless the cock is split for opaline. Then your hens could be either or.
Still don't know how it would show on an -ino.

[Morgan]

Well, none of them will be visually opaline - so it wouldn’t show at all. Males will all be split for opaline though

[yellowfacedviolet]

First things first, gtv1750 , are you confident that they are creaminos? Do you see a red/plum eye? Given that one of the parents is some sort of pied, it is possible that Dark-Eyed Clears could be produced. But they would have black eyes,

Assuming they are indeed creaminos, when you say "not sure yet if pied or not or opaline," I'm stuck on the word 'yet.' There is nothing to wait for. Ino masks all other mutations except cinnamon and yellowface. There will never be any indication of pied, opaline or any other mutation. There might be some suffusion of color but never any indication of pattern other than cinnamon.

That said, you are right to assume that it was your male who is responsible for the chicks being Ino. And here I must disagree with Morgan : Ino, like opaline, is also a sex-linked mutation and a hen cannot be split to Ino, She either is Ino or she is not. And yours was not.

Given that pairing--normal split to Ino cock x normal hen-- what we do know is that your two creamino chicks are little girls.

Now as for opaline, I agree with Hezz 's revised comments. If your male is normal and not split to opaline, neither of your creaminos will be masking opaline. However, if your male is split to opaline, there's a 50-50 chance each of your creamino girls could be masking opaline.

As for pied, if you post a photo of her we could likely tell you what sort of pied she is and what the chances are of your creamino chicks masking pied.

[Morgan]

yellowfacedviolet - whoops! I have a lot more reviewing to do, can’t believe I forgot that ino is also sex-linked >.< They’re not a mutation I am particularly interested in so I haven’t focused on it much, but that’s no excuse if I really want to get budgie genetics down pat. Glad to be corrected!

Edit: I also didn’t think of the possibility of the father being split for opaline either - and the daughters therefore being inos masking opaline themselves.