At a complete standstill now

[nettles]

When I put my hand in the cage, Marge will step up into my finger once or twice, she'll only stay there for a few seconds at the most each time then hops off again. Then she's had enough and won't do it again the rest of the day. I then feel like I'm chasing her round and round the cage, so I stop.

This has gone on for a few weeks now and I'm not getting any further on at all.

Do you persist in following her round the cage, or do you give up when she's had enough?

I'm worried if I follow her round the cage, she'll eventually be frightened of my finger.. but if I don't follow her, I'll never get any further on coz she point blank refuses to step up any more than twice a day.

I'm a bit confused!

[ffiscool]

Bailey won't go on my finger. I made a game out of using a spare perch so now he steps on that.

I would love it to be my finger but once on his perch I can get him v close to me which is nice

Maybe try a perch or if none spare, end of a wooden spoon?

[OP]

Nettles, you are not alone. Joey is almost the same. He just refuses to get on the finger except to launch himself to another perch. Any sort of stick he doesn't want to know. So I will be very interested in the replies you get. For you and me both. Hopefully there is a positive answer.

[nettles]

I use a spare perch too ffiscool She'll sit on it for ages while I hold it.. but she only tolerates that for a while too. Then it's the same story as the finger

[nettles]

Misery loves company OP I was chuffed to bits when she first stepped up onto my finger but that was a while ago now and it hasn't got any further. I think it's about time we get Marge and Joey into training school! Even if I could get her close to me on the spare perch like ffiscool has managed with Bailey, I'd feel like I was getting somewhere!

[ffiscool]

it is nice when he is close, but that is when he goes for my fingers or nose...

He doesnt do it all the time... and when he is that close, i also turn the tv right down or radio, if it is on, and talk very quietly to him.. so he sort of concentrates more

but some days he still doesnt come out

I did notice that when I now mist him with the water spray, then he comes to his platform and flies about, I think to get rid of it all, he just doesnt like water much...

[birdguhl]

Not that I can speak never having got to the point of finger tameness with mine, but have you tried the millet incentive? They have to sit for longer to get a nibble and eventually sitting there is no big deal.

(Actually this is not quite true as in last few weeks I have got both Woody and Charlie flying to my hand to feed out of a dish or have some millet. Charlie was happy to do this, but it is a big deal for Woody. But I don't quite know where to go from here as I suspect there are not easily going to progress to coming to my hand if there isn't food there.)

[Hezz]

This is the hardest bit to do, and most often you (and I) don't get it right. The thing to aim for (hee, hee) is to move Marge off before she steps off herself! So it is a very quick "step up, good girl, step down" ..... probably leave out the good girl bit, it takes up too much time! But yes, follow her around the cage getting her to step up, and then straight away put her back on a perch with lots of praise. You will get to feel when she is lightening herself for a move off your finger; if you get to that stage, turf her off before she moves herself off. I can make it sound really simple, if I want to, but it does take some intuition, so just work with what you can, what you are aware of ....... put it another way, you aren't getting it wrong, just maybe not getting it as right as it could have been. So progress may be a little slower, but you will get there, sheer perseverance will win over in the long run. Patience, persistence and perseverance are the key.


PS nettles, "she point blank refuses ......" No!!! Remember who is the boss here. You!

[ffiscool]

I did do the millet once, but not given him millet in a while.. and he isnt yet desperate enough for any food to do that.

For now I am ok with the perch, but would like him to go beyond that.

I will keep trying.. but the other day he nearly fell off the outside of his cage. I put my finger there, but not.......lol he would rather fall off

[starrymist]

I've *never* followed mine around with my finger. I keep my hand still & in exactly the same place if/ when Brodie (or Misty or Bobby years ago) hopped off or refised to get on; they'd usually try & get as far away as possible but then they'd settle & eventually make it back to their favourite spot even with my still hand near, when they do that I give tons of praise (i talk reassuring the whole time) & *then* I remove my hand even though they've not stepped up. I just think having a hand following them reinforces the idea that hands are unpredictable & quite scary & so it's best to continue avoiding them. But it's very important also not to remove the hand when they leap away as that gives them the connection of worrying/ panicking = that scary hand being removed. Over time the period of panic gets shorter & they see that a hand in the cage is ok, even if its close, then finger training becomes far less stressful for both parties. Not sure if this approach works for all budgies (I kind of thought everyone did it this way!) but it's worked really well with mine, it may take a little longer initially but in the long run I think it's quicker. As for keeping your hand in, I popped a folded up facecloth in the doorway to lean my arm on which helped! Brodie freaked out majorly at the sight of it to begin with (i think he may have been caught by a cloth when he was litlle) but he soon learnt that it was ok too just as hands are ok.

[nettles]

ffiscool my two don't like the water much either! They tolerate it bit that's about it. Maybe B just likes some exercise after his "relaxing" shower I love when my two look at me intently when I talk to them. Sometimes tilting their heads from side to side.. So cute

birdguhl I've tried millet but they don't seem too fussed about it Its great that your two come to your hand for treats though! Especially when it's a big deal for Woody! Mine will eat broccoli from my hand.. but only when I hold it right in front of them. They never come to my hand to get it. Even when I move it a little further away from them, they just give up and walk away. Lazy beggars

[nettles]

I've just tried your advice Hezz Looks like I have to be super quick to turf her off first She's fast! She was just using my finger as a springboard to get away lol. The persistence definitely paid off as she normally goes in the opposite direct and doesn't touch my hand at all!

I need to tell Marge that I'm now being patient, persistent and perseverant so she better stop being stubborn, stroppy and sulky

I'm not sure if I'm the boss yet. These buds have me demoted to slave

[nettles]

I was worried about that starrymist. I didn't want her to see my hand as a pain in her butt She's fine with my hand in the cage though and will quite happily sit beside it, just not step up unless it suits her.

Your approach is definitely more suited to Melman. He still panics a bit when I first put my hand in the cage but when I sit there with my hand still he eventually calms down. Usually after I've got pins and needles in my fingers! I use a folded up microfibre cloth, much softer on the arm

[Hezz]

Sept 6, 2013 19:04:04 GMT nettles said:

She's fine with my hand in the cage though and will quite happily sit beside it, just not step up unless it suits her.

Your approach is definitely more suited to Melman. He still panics a bit when I first put my hand in the cage but when I sit there with my hand still he eventually calms down. Usually after I've got pins and needles in my fingers! I use a folded up microfibre cloth, much softer on the arm

You have gotten this exactly right, in my opinion, Nettles. I never, ever meant for you to torment the bird by chasing her around the cage with a big scary hand. God, no!!! What I was trying to say, obviously not very well, was .... as Marge is not afraid of your hand and will hop onto it, but straight off, you need to work the next step which is getting her to stay longer, so "step up" as you offer her your finger, and step down as you move her off. It makes her think it is your wish for her to step off, so with a little conditioning along these lines you can get to lengthening the time between step on and step off. I hope this makes more sense.

As for Melman, he is still not comfortable with your hand in the cage, so the softly, softly approach is definitely needed there. There is no point trying this with him until he gets over his fear of your hand. He may be one who will only allow you to stick train. I hope not.

[Hezz]

Sept 6, 2013 14:06:47 GMT starrymist said:

I've *never* followed mine around with my finger. I keep my hand still & in exactly the same place if/ when Brodie (or Misty or Bobby years ago) hopped off or refised to get on; they'd usually try & get as far away as possible but then they'd settle & eventually make it back to their favourite spot even with my still hand near, when they do that I give tons of praise (i talk reassuring the whole time) & *then* I remove my hand even though they've not stepped up. I just think having a hand following them reinforces the idea that hands are unpredictable & quite scary & so it's best to continue avoiding them. But it's very important also not to remove the hand when they leap away as that gives them the connection of worrying/ panicking = that scary hand being removed. Over time the period of panic gets shorter & they see that a hand in the cage is ok, even if its close, then finger training becomes far less stressful for both parties.

starrymist, Nettles has gone beyond the hand in the cage being scary with Marge. She is trying to move onto the next step, being finger training Marge to stay on her finger. At least that is the way I have understood what she is trying to do. For a new, just brought home budgie, or neglected bird, I agree that you need to get the bird to a stage where the hand isn't seen as a threat, but more the bearer of lovely treats.