Jun 2, 2014 19:20:55 GMT
rach1984
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 12
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Post by rach1984 on Jun 2, 2014 21:59:30 GMT
Hello there, I am hoping for some help with my llittle budgie Pippin who is 5 years old. About 10 months ago he lost some of his primary flight feathers and they have never grown back since. He has lost the ability to fly - although he still gives it a good try and throws himself off things a lot! I have also noticed that some of his wing feathers are now growing in deformed. In the photo below you can see that the flight feathers are missing from the tips of the wing, and in the second image the feather in the middle of the wing seems to have grown in with a chunk of the plumage missing from the middle of the shaft - there are a few other feathers in his wings that have come in looking like that. Pippin is completely well in himself. Eating and drinking normally, normal poops and as chirpy and active as ever. I had thought it might be french moult, but because of his age I'm not sure. I always thought french moult was with a bird from birth and that if contracted later in life it was the result of a disease? I have also thought stress might be an issue - We introduced a baby budgie to Pippin about 2 years ago. They get along very well in their cage together, but sometimes the younger budgie can be very boistrous and rough with Pippin when they play. Pippin has always been a laid back budgie and he has a deformed leg too, so I'm wondering if an over-excitable playmate might be too much for him? Can stress cause these issues in budgie feathers? I would love to hear what you guys think! THank you
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Post by ffiscool on Jun 2, 2014 22:45:06 GMT
Ah bless him. How tame he is, to let you hold him like that. I am sorry I wouldn't know re your questions, but others will. You are in good hands on here
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Post by Hezz on Jun 3, 2014 2:08:54 GMT
If it were stress from the second budgie entering his life, I would have expected it to have shown in the first year, rather than the second. Regarding French Moult, the jury still seems to be out as to whether adult birds can contract the disease.
Hopefully some other members who have experienced FM may be able to shed more light.
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Post by BudgiesBuddy on Jun 3, 2014 10:32:45 GMT
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Jun 2, 2014 19:20:55 GMT
rach1984
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 12
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Post by rach1984 on Jun 4, 2014 10:02:41 GMT
ffiscool - he is the tamest budgie I have ever had, such a lovely nature aswell. Hezz - I agree, I didn't think stress would take this long to show if it was the problem, and to be honest the younger budgie is much more settled now than he was at first. He is still a bit rough sometimes, but he knows when we are telling him to leave Pip alone and I think he respects Pippins boundaries more now. Another thing we had considered was a lack of UV light. When I have done Googling around feather issues, some people recommend getting a special Avian UV light to shine over the cage for 20 mins a day to give them the extra vitamin boost. I'm a bit reluctant to get a light just to try, as the cost for it and a clamp or stand is close to £100. Does anyone here use UV lights at all? Thanks.
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Post by starlingqueen on Jun 4, 2014 11:29:16 GMT
I use UV lights but you can provide vitamin supplements that have D3 in them, something like "feather up". Also a regular trip outside on a sunny day in his cage of course, can do them the world of good.
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Post by skysmum on Jun 4, 2014 14:02:14 GMT
Hi, i have a french moult bud, he is almost 13 now, i bred him myself and for the first almost 2 years he was perfectly fine it was during his second year that the FM struck. For the first few years it wasn't too bad, he regrew the feathers and could fly in between moults but the older he has got the worse it has become and when they grow in they are very deformed and all over the place, he can no longer fly but is well in himself. They can get this in varying degrees sometimes its very mild. I have tried allsorts over the years but nothing makes a difference. It is difficult to tell with your Pippin but if i was hazarding a guess i would say it was a mild form. It could get worse as he gets older. The jury is very much out about FM, its a complicated thing but i will confirm that it can stay dormant before coming out and i think stress can be a factor in triggering it because Jo's came out when i moved them all into an outdoor aviary. Sorry i cant be of any more help .
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Jun 2, 2014 19:20:55 GMT
rach1984
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 12
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Post by rach1984 on Jun 4, 2014 20:03:47 GMT
skysmum - Thanks for your reply. It's good to know that it is most likely french moult. It's a shame there is no way to help the budgies with it, but they are so good at adapting, it doesn't seem to have phased Pip that he can't fly any more. Can I just ask, did you ever seperate your affected budgie from the others when he was having trouble flying? I'm thinking a bit of time in seperate cages might help Pip relax. Thanks.
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Post by Captain Howdy on Jun 4, 2014 21:54:54 GMT
Can you get clearer pictures of the feathers you are referring to? Or highlight them on the picture.The first picture I can see small feathers that don't look fully grown and in the second picture it looks like she is missing a couple of feathers. Is this what your referring to?
If so do the feathers on the end of the wing still have a sheath around them to indicate they are still growing?
As birds get older they can take a longer time to complete a moult.
I have had a few french moulters over the years of varying stages but have never had one like that. I would have expected it to affect more than just a couple of feathers in very particular places, I would have also expected you to have had issues before now. French Moulters normally have very weak feathers that break easily and fall out very easily. If it is indeed that - which at this stage I am not convinced - then there is no harm in keeping her with the cage mate, it is believed only young birds can get it and in my experience none of my adult birds ever contracted it or became a carrier and I have been french moult year for a couple of years now since my last one died.
Regarding the issue flying I always have plenty of perches and ways to get around for birds that have trouble flying, you tend to find they adapt quite well.
Looking back at your second picture again I think I now see what your on about the eighth feather from the left? If so this could be down to things like overpreening, chewing at it due to irritation etc or mites.
Could you get pictures of the back of the bird, front of the bird and a side shot of both sides?
If you are concerned I would advise a quick checkup with an avian vet who can run some blood work and see if they can find the cause, that way you know for certain either way.
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Post by skysmum on Jun 4, 2014 22:15:07 GMT
skysmum - Thanks for your reply. It's good to know that it is most likely french moult. It's a shame there is no way to help the budgies with it, but they are so good at adapting, it doesn't seem to have phased Pip that he can't fly any more. Can I just ask, did you ever seperate your affected budgie from the others when he was having trouble flying? I'm thinking a bit of time in seperate cages might help Pip relax. Thanks. Ive only just separated him from the others in March but this was mainly because his little legs are getting a bit stiff now and he has trouble getting around also i have introduced some very lively youngsters and they were being a bit rough with him and i cant have that . He is currently one very spoilt house budgie and loving every moment of it, he likes his own space and is very much more relaxed. I have a Blog about him called Jo's Blog if you would like to have a look at him. Like Cpt Howdy I also wondered about feather mites with your little chap, have you treated him for these, if not it may be worth doing it just to rule them out, you can buy the Beaphar spot on for this.
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Post by Hezz on Jun 5, 2014 1:30:13 GMT
Regarding your concern with vitD, as Starlingqueen has mentioned, a dose of sun as often as possible and there are supplements you can add to their water. For my money (or lack of it ) I think nothing is quite as good as a nice sunbathe for them, and you, as you will have to sit there with them to make sure nothing comes along to show too much interest. I often give mine a dish to bath in when they are out in the sun; they seem to be more interested in a bath then than any other time.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:20:55 GMT
rach1984
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 12
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Post by rach1984 on Jun 5, 2014 16:27:39 GMT
Just to clarify, Pippin is definitely a male budgie. His cere is a bit brown because he rubs it on a wooden perch in his cage - He had us panicked when we first saw it turn brown, as it could have meant all sorts of terrible things, but then we noticed he enjoyed scratching his face on the wood when he had head feathers coming in, so panic over. Captain Howdy - Yes, the 8th from the left is the feather I was referring to where there is a chunk of plumage missing about halfway down it. He had a few feathers grown in with much more plume missing, but it looks like they have fallen out, so that was the best example I could find. I will get some more pictures of him tonight from the different angles and see if i can find any more deformed feathers. I agree about the cage having plenty of perches, Pippin has always had lots in his cage and lots of little platforms too as he has a deformed leg so it helps him get around. skysmum - Just had a look at Jo's Blog, he is a gorgeous bud! One of the photos of his wings actually reminds me of how Pip's look when he has them folded. They are quite muddled and never seem to lie straight any more. I haven't ever treated my budgies for mites as they are house budgies. Would mites not present a lot more symptoms? I always thought budgies got quite depressed if they had mites? Hezz - I do need to get them out in the garden more often, they do enjoy it... When the noisy dogs next door aren't going mental anyway. Thanks for all the responses guys!
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Post by skysmum on Jun 5, 2014 16:42:19 GMT
Thank you re Jo, he is very special , and knows it . I agree its a long shot with mites but not uncommon, they can come into the house on us, open windows etc etc, i always treat any new bird i bring in as well, just incase. I really think it is more a case of mild FM and regardless of what the experts say, i KNOW my Jo only developed it at around 2 years old, he was perfectly normal until then. I liken it to some human illnesses that can be in us but takes a certain thing to trigger it.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:20:55 GMT
rach1984
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 12
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Post by rach1984 on Jun 5, 2014 21:14:56 GMT
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Post by skysmum on Jun 5, 2014 22:13:22 GMT
From these pics i would say without much doubt he has FM rach.
Has he a poorly foot too or is that just how he is standing.
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