Help us determine gender

[svenandecho26]

We got this pair 9 months ago (last November) from a bird shop.  At the time, the shop owner said that the blue was likely female and the green male. As they have gotten older, we have become suspicious that they are both the same gender.  Their ceres started out quite distinct from each other, and are now close to identical.  They are also very similar in behavior -- neither displays clear dominance, they share well and prefer to be close to each other.  We have a nesting box in their cage, but neither has ever been curious about it or going inside of it (this could be an age thing). They are somewhat skittish (this has gotten better slowly over time) and while both like touching things with their mouths, especially the blue one, neither has ever bit at us or each other.

We have enough space in the house that we would like to maybe have more birds at some point, so it is important to sex them correctly so we don't create any weird dynamics.  Thank you for your help!

[Shirls]

Hi and welcome svenandecho26 to this crazy forum. I am by no means an expert, but I would say they are both boys. More experienced members will be on later to confirm or otherwise this comment. By their behaviour too they sound like two boys. The hens usually are totally different in their behaviour.

Looking forward to hearing more about your two birdies and any others that you may get too. What are their names btw?

[OP]

Before I even read Shirls's post I thought both male.I'm about as novice as you can get. So it'll be interesting to read what the others think.

[svenandecho26]

Thank you for responding so quickly Shirls!
That's what we were thinking as well, but being new to birds I wanted to double check. The green one is Svenjamin and the blue one is Echo, and they are pretty rad. I guess my follow up question is, if they are both boys, what is the best way to add some female energy to the mix? Aside from having basically free roam of the house a couple times a week, they have a 5x4x2' cage in the living room that they prefer to sleep in -- lucky for us, as it is much easier for them to put themselves away at the end of the day than to try to bribe them over. My question is this: how many girl birds are ideal? They already have a nesting box, and I would like to rasie a baby bird, but these two have a pretty harmonious situation and I would hate to wreck that by adding too many or too few females.

[OP]

One female is the best for your size of flock and cage. If the males have bonded with each other adding a female to the mix will not split them up. It is usually the female the does the choosing. Nothing is guaranteed in the budgie world, except you will enjoy their company. If you decide to introduce another budgie then please remember the to quarantine the newcomer for about four weeks. You wouldn't want to introduce some nasties to your buds.

[starlingqueen]

Agree both male. If you add a hen then you will have one bird left out in the cold.

[Marianne Marlow]

Both boys.

If you want your birds to breed (and have the knowledge to help them safely raise chicks) the breeding pair would need a cage of their own, undisturbed by the others. Colony breeding (more than one breeding pair sharing the same space) is not recommended.

[Hezz]

Both boys.

[Shirls]

I agree with starlingqueen here, you need to get two hens, three is always a crowd is it not? No telling if the hens will bond with either of the cocks. On the subject of breeding (I have no experience) skysmum, stevex, Budgies Retreat are to name just a couple of more experienced breeders.

[OP]

If the buds were to go in an aviary then I would agree to two hens to two cocks. But as I have witnessed in my small flock of caged buds it does not balance out that one cock to one hen works. The hens have worked out which is the boss of the flock, that's Edward. The hierarchy is Edward(hen), Bobby(hen), Whiskers(cock), Joey(cock). Whiskers has befriended with the hens, when they allow it. Joey does not even try to get near the hens. It's beaks wide open if either of them get near. What I am saying is that if these buds are going to be caged then two hens with two young cocks could be very interesting.

[Hezz]

I agree with OP; there is not reason to go with two hens just because you have two cocks. But I definitely agree with Marianne Marlow, that breeding two groups together is looking for trouble - separate the breeding couple into their own cage so that you can really keep an eye on what is going on. There is no rules for additions. Even numbers suit us humans, but for the birds there is no right or wrong way to go. A lot of my budgie-keeping life has resulted in odd numbers, not through planning, but just circumstances, and I can't say that even numbers has resulted in better harmony, with no one being left out; odd numbers have actually ended up being happier groups in my opinion - less fights, more definite hierarchy.

[Gaile]

If you want to breed them. Then you need to separate the boys give them a hen each.
If you want them to have company they have each other. The 2 boys will form a 'bromance' xxx

[skysmum]

Lovely boys , they are probably very grateful for their Man Shed, give them a while and they will have a train set up and running in there

I would go down the two girl's route, don't want any falling out between the boys who have formed a lovely bond by the looks of it.
Definitely one pair per cage for breeding though and be sure they are all over a year old

[jujubiiird]

Lovely pair of boys you have, your Echo looks alot like my Juju. love their names by the way.