My budgie has seeds in his stool, please help!

[Deleted]

Hi, my budgie Biscuit has seeds in his stool, he's had it for a month now. I have been bringing him to the vet, they looked at his stool but saw nothing. They can't diagnose him, so here I am asking you guys. Here are his symptoms.
 
1. Listlessness.
2. Leaning forward(bad posture).
3. Decrease in water intake. 
4. Less droppings than usual.
5. Preening mostly around the vent.
6. Loss of feathers under wings.
7. Sitting fluffed up on perch.

At one point Biscuit had blood in his droppings and was vomiting, but ever since I put apple cider vinegar in his water he's been much better. Also, I have a few questions..
1. What's the difference between vomiting and regurgitating?
2. What's the best way to tame budgies?
3. How do you encourage budgies to eat fruit?
4. How do you encourage them to take baths? 
5. How do you prevent them from getting sick?
6. How often do you have to clean a cage with 2 budgies in it?

[Morgan]

I’m sorry I can’t help much with the seeds in poop issue. This link may get you started and then you might have to do a lot of your own research - look for articles that link to sources of the information presented and read the sources as well for clarity or additional info. If you end up with more questions share them here and we might be able to help further.

www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesallgemein/indikatorkot_en.htm

You may also want to look for a different vet - an avian specific vet - for a second opinion.

As for your other questions:

1. What's the difference between vomiting and regurgitating? Regurgitation is a controlled action to feed another bird, and the budgie can bring food up and give it to his mate, or in the case of a single male trying to feed his reflection in a mirror, may swallow it again, etc. Whereas vomiting looks like the bird does not want to do the action, and will often shake his head while vomiting, getting the vomit on the cage, perches, and his own face. The vomit may be whole or partially digested seeds, or a white liquid, and it may smell bad or not. Depending on the exact symptoms you may be able to figure out where in the GI tract of the bird the issue is, but this is best determined by an avian vet. There is a thread on here by tweetiepiesmom called something like “Normal regurgitation or not?” And another by blueelephant called simply “Regurgitation” that you should read through. Both have had issues with their budgies vomiting and you can see how their vets have responded - but the reason for vomiting could be anything from a bacterial infection, parasite, candidiasis, or avian gastric yeast, and the main issue could be located in the crop, gizzard, stomach, or intestines, or be systemic, so you really need a vet to do a crop swab and/or other tests and figure out what course of action to take.

2. What's the best way to tame budgies? The short answer is do everything slowly, in short (5-10min) intervals, talk to them sweetly (like baby-talk) as much as possible because chatter means safety and silence often means danger, and look up the “blinking game”.

3. How do you encourage budgies to eat fruit? Budgies don’t really need to eat fruit since they are a desert animal. Too much sugar can cause an overgrowth of yeast as well, so always in moderation. You can try to sprinkle some seeds onto a sliced strawberry (berries are low in sugar) or anything you’d like them to try and get a taste of. Be creative! Prepare food in different ways and mix/mush/stick seeds into/onto it to get them to at least get a taste for it.

4. How do you encourage them to take baths? You can spray them with clean warm water (not hot, preferably filtered) from a mist bottle that makes a fine mist, not a spray with big droplets. Not all budgies like to be sprayed though. You can also offer a shallow dish of water with cut grass or leafy greens in it to encourage them to take a dip, or you can spray veggies and clip them up in the cage and the buds may rub up against them to bathe that way.

5. How do you prevent them from getting sick? Feed them a complete diet of seeds, veggies, egg for protein and vitamin A, and direct sunlight for a minimum of 15 minutes a week (not filtered through glass). You can also try to sprout their seeds but beware they can grow mold and bacteria so look up how to sprout safely and rinse them often. You can do a final rinse with diluted apple cider vinegar before storing them in the fridge for up to a week, but best if used within a few days. There are great threads to read in the Feeding topic on this forum about sprouting.

I also change their water once before bed with ACV in it to keep it fresh overnight, iodine supplement once a week, again in the morning, and once again round midday. I used to feed seaweed but I was t sure they were all eating it (Monkey usually destroyed it quickly) so I switched to iodine drops. Common vitamin deficiencies in budgies are iodine, Vit A, K, D, protein during the molt, and sometimes calcium if a female starts to lay - whether there is a male present or not.

Egg yolks are high in Vit A and K, and the whites are an excellent source of protein. You can also buy dry eggfood instead if they won’t eat boiled egg - hard boil it, and some recommend boiling for 15-20 min to make sure all bacteria is killed off but that long may not be necessary to kill the bacteria. Vit D is best gotten from direct sunlight but you can also get a supplement for it, and iodine as well. Where I am in the USA I haven’t found iodine blocks so I use liquid 2.5% iodine without alcohol, 3 drops to 100ml of water once a week. You can buy liquid calcium to have on hand in case you are ever worried about a female becoming egg bound, and can use as a supplement once a week - but a cuttlebone and mineral block should suffice if your buds are using it. I think yours are both male anyway?

6. How often do you have to clean a cage with 2 budgies in it? I do a superficial cleaning every day - simply changing out their cage liners and vacuuming, etc. because my buds fly free most of the day. I also do a deep cleaning and disinfect everything about once a week. While they are out of their cages I take the cages outside (remove their cuttlebone, mineral blocks, etc.), and hose them down, wipe them dry, and spray them with a bird-safe enzyme cleaner (diluted white vinegar is fine too) and let it dry again without wiping it. Then I bring them back inside, apply enough liners for a little over a week (in case I need to remove more than one each day - sometimes they’re just extra messy!), put their cuttlebone and mineral blocks back in, and bring them back into the bird room. Then when they go in for the evening I do a deep clean of the room too and wipe down the walls, doors, curtain rod, etc. anywhere they hang out. Sometimes I do leave the whole deep clean off a few extra days over a week but I do my best to stay on top of it.

[Deleted]

Schizm23 -Thanks very much for answering all my questions except the one about the seeds in Biscuit's droppings.. It's very helpful!!!😁

[Deleted]

Oh, and one more question. If a bird gets a disease, can it get better without taking medicine?

[Morgan]

@birdlover123 - If a bird is showing obvious signs of illness, it is already beyond the point where it’s own immune system would have been able to help it - in my opinion. Budgies hide their illnesses for as long as possible in order to avoid predators targeting them as the weakest in the flock. We have to keep a very close eye on our buds and understand their body language to detect illnesses as early as possible. Once there is an obvious issue, I think the only remedy is medicine. I can’t say that no budgie can recover on it’s own with maybe better nutrition or something, but I really wouldn’t risk it.

[Hezz]

I suggest you look for another vet until you find someone you are comfortable with. I think I've already this in another of your posts.

If your bird is ill, please don't offer him a bath, or mist him with water. The last thing a sick bird needs is to lose precious heat getting wet and having to dry off. Budgies, being desert birds, have not evolved to need regular baths. Some will not bath, ever.

Fluffed up and listless means he isn't well. A sick bird expends a lot of energy keeping warm since their core body temp runs a lot higher than ours - around 40^oC. A heat source close to the cage can be of help. Put it to one end of the cage so that he can move out of the heat if he feels too hot. While a bird is sick, remove the fresh food from its diet and leave only the seed pot. Continue the ACV in the water. Is he eating?

The decrease in water intake could be concerning; you may need to take charge and syringe water into his beak. If he isn't drinking enough, this could be impacting on his poop regularity and be the reason he is scratching around his vent.

Leaning forward while perching can mean many things from tiredness to tumours. Has he been xrayed?

[Deleted]

Ok thanks Hezz! The information was very useful! At first, I did bathe Biscuit when an avian vet online told me to. But I only did it 2 or 3 times because I noticed that the avian vet didn't seem very knowledgeable with a lot of knowledge on birds and he knew what I already knew, so I stopped bathing him.

Ok, I will try to look for different vet who I feel comfortable with which is more qualified.
For a heat source, what is best to use? I'm thinking a heat lamp. Also, should I half cover the cage to keep the warmth?
Yes, he is eating fine.
To syringe water in his beak, how do I hold him? He isn't tame and when I try to he squirms a lot and tries to bite me.
He has not been x rayed. I have scheduled an appointment with my normal vet Saturday 11 o'clock to get ivermectin for his scaly face mites. Should I ask them to x ray him at the same time?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2020 6:20:44 GMT Morgan said:

I’m sorry I can’t help much with the seeds in poop issue. This link may get you started and then you might have to do a lot of your own research - look for articles that link to sources of the information presented and read the sources as well for clarity or additional info. If you end up with more questions share them here and we might be able to help further.

www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesallgemein/indikatorkot_en.htm

You may also want to look for a different vet - an avian specific vet - for a second opinion.


2. What's the best way to tame budgies? The short answer is do everything slowly, in short (5-10min) intervals, talk to them sweetly (like baby-talk) as much as possible because chatter means safety and silence often means danger, and look up the “blinking game”.

What is the 'blinking game'? Also, another question(I don't know when I'm going to stop!), how do you feed budgies? currently, I put enough food to last 2 weeks in their food bowl and wait until it's finished.  

[Hezz]

Blinking is simply breaking up the predator stare that any animal with eyes in the front of its head has, and that includes humans. To a prey animal, to be stared at unblinkingly is to be looked on as the predator's next feed. By blinking often, half closing the eyes, turning your head so that your bird can only see one of your eyes, all of these break up the double eyed predator stare and makes the birds feel more secure.

Any birds' seed should be blown out daily and refilled. Seed sitting around for two weeks is not going to be terribly fresh, possibly fouled by the birds themselves and you run the risk of them having nothing to eat if the husks aren't blown off regularly. Fresh veg of some description should be offered each day, removed after sitting for a couple of hours, seeding grasses are much healthier and can be left overnight as they simply dry out rather than go off. Sprouting seeds for them is a great food but can cause problems if not done properly as they very easily grow mould.

[Deleted]

Biscuit is not leaning over anymore!

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2020 3:12:29 GMT @birdlover123 said:

Ok thanks Hezz! The information was very useful! At first, I did bathe Biscuit when an avian vet online told me to. But I only did it 2 or 3 times because I noticed that the avian vet didn't seem very knowledgeable with a lot of knowledge on birds and he knew what I already knew, so I stopped bathing him.

Ok, I will try to look for different vet who I feel comfortable with which is more qualified.
For a heat source, what is best to use? I'm thinking a heat lamp. Also, should I half cover the cage to keep the warmth?
Yes, he is eating fine.
To syringe water in his beak, how do I hold him? He isn't tame and when I try to he squirms a lot and tries to bite me.
He has not been x rayed. I have scheduled an appointment with my normal vet Saturday 11 o'clock to get ivermectin for his scaly face mites. Should I ask them to x ray him at the same time?

Can you answer these questions Hezz?

[Hezz]

A heat lamp is good, at one end of the cage so that he can move out of the warmth if he gets too hot. Just be careful with wrapping a cover over the lamp and the cage so as to not actually touch the lamp.

The easiest way to hold a budgie is using what is called the "ringer's grip". I find I have more control, though, holding the head between thumb and index finger rather than index and second finger.

I only mentioned xray in case there might have been a question of a tumour. A vet will often palpate the bird's body to feel for any obvious lumps and bumps. If a tumour is a consideration but cannot be felt, then an xray would be the next obvious step. It is not something you would ask for without consideration.

[Deleted]

I went to the vet, I told him about the mites(see my other thread) and the seeds in Biscuit's stool, he examined the only dropping that was there, saw nothing but he said when you get a fresh dropping, put it in a packet and send it via Grab or runner. He is a very popular vet, I had to wait 1 hour 30 minutes even though I arrived just when the store opened but already 2 people there.
Consultation was cheap though.. even though he is a very good vet, he has cheap consultation. for consultation it was RM40 for consultation and the mites medicine was RM13.50. Very good service.

[Hezz]

From your post, it would seem that you are quoting Malaysian currency. It is a pity you hadn't filled in your location in your profile as that does make it much easier for us all to make recommendations for both products and services. I'm happy for you that you seem to have had a good consult.

[Deleted]

I don't know what a clogged nose looks like, but Biscuit's nose looks a bit clogged compared to bluey's nose. Here, I took a pic.