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Post by sweetpea on Sept 10, 2022 11:01:42 GMT
How much milk thistle are you giving, sweetpea ? Have you tried increasing the dose, and has that made any difference? It seems to me, from what you have written - the explanation from the vet - that the seizure med is treating the symptom rather than the cause, the cause being most likely, the liver damage. I’d be reluctant as well … what happens if you give this med to help with the seizures, only for it to damage his liver even more and thus possibly promote more seizures?? Sounds very “Catch 22” to me. I’m sorry, I don’t have anything of help to offer. I have increased the dose. He also has the nutramarin powder (milk thistle) though it's hard to gauge how much he actually ingests. We don't know if his liver is the cause of the seizures as I have not agreed to any tests. They may be totally unrelated. That said, he has fatty lumps & his beak grows quickly, so his liver most probably isn't functioning 100% effectively. It could very well be related... or not!  Certainly the addition of a synthetic drug that may potentially cause harm elsewhere is off putting. It's a great business model for the pharmaceutical industry though - prescribe one drug, then another to treat the side effects of the first! I'm not saying all drugs are useless, but sometimes it's worth looking for a more natural remedy, which is what I'm trying to do, but my brain is failing me with understanding what I am reading! For example, on a website listing herbs good for epilepsy (what the epiphen is usually prescribed for), lemon balm (which I have recently started growing on my window ledge) "acts exactly like benzodiazepines, but without the side effects and addictive traits". "Benzodiazepines are man-made medications that cause mild to severe depression of the nerves within the brain (central nervous system) and sedation (drowsiness.)"So, does that mean it can depress the 'excessive nerve function' that the vet refers to? I don't know! Anyway, I offered Perry a lemon balm leaf yesterday evening & he had a few bites, so it can't do any harm!! Bit long.... sorry... thinking out aloud! |
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Post by ladybird on Sept 10, 2022 11:54:02 GMT
Such a dilemma for you. Can I just say as it might give you some hope…..My Charlie has been really I’ll on and off since April, among his many symptoms, he was having a lot of small seizures and also I was told he had liver issues. The Avian vet is convinced that he has Bornovirus. He has been on antibiotics and Metacam at times and many times I thought I was going to loose him……. But as of now, he is doing well, this seizures have stopped and although he still has bad days, he is mainly happy and doing OK…. ( he never had any tests either)
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Post by Hezz on Sept 11, 2022 1:30:17 GMT
While not all natural remedies are without side effects, I would be willing to bet that the side effects from a little home-grown lemon balm would be a lot less destructive than the side effects of a manufactured compound designed for a species other than what is being treated. I think you are right to proceed with caution.
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 11, 2022 15:01:26 GMT
Such a dilemma for you. Can I just say as it might give you some hope…..My Charlie has been really I’ll on and off since April, among his many symptoms, he was having a lot of small seizures and also I was told he had liver issues. The Avian vet is convinced that he has Bornovirus. He has been on antibiotics and Metacam at times and many times I thought I was going to loose him……. But as of now, he is doing well, this seizures have stopped and although he still has bad days, he is mainly happy and doing OK…. ( he never had any tests either) Thanks, ladybird. It's good that Charlie has been responding well. Let's hope his good days well outweigh any bad days. What do you attribute to the seizures stopping? |
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 11, 2022 15:05:18 GMT
While not all natural remedies are without side effects, I would be willing to bet that the side effects from a little home-grown lemon balm would be a lot less destructive than the side effects of a manufactured compound designed for a species other than what is being treated. I think you are right to proceed with caution. Agree Hezz. Also, I think that when ill, if presented with certain foods/herbs, birds (or any animal) will instinctively eat what will do them good. Perry has been quite enthusiastic about the lemon balm. I am also considering getting some chamomile tincture for bedtime. As an extra benefit, it may be good for Lennie's anxiety issues. |
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Post by Hezz on Sept 12, 2022 3:15:13 GMT
While not all natural remedies are without side effects, I would be willing to bet that the side effects from a little home-grown lemon balm would be a lot less destructive than the side effects of a manufactured compound designed for a species other than what is being treated. I think you are right to proceed with caution. Agree Hezz. Also, I think that when ill, if presented with certain foods/herbs, birds (or any animal) will instinctively eat what will do them good. Perry has been quite enthusiastic about the lemon balm. I am also considering getting some chamomile tincture for bedtime. As an extra benefit, it may be good for Lennie's anxiety issues. I think you are right. They are much better at self-medicating than we are. |
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Post by Hezz on Sept 20, 2022 1:20:38 GMT
sweetpea, in my foggy Covid-brain I had a thought … my head hurts anyway so I won’t answer that question … someone recently told me that they were recommended to take Vit b supplements for a neurological condition and I thought of Perry, while I was putting Vegemite on my crackers. I don’t know about marmite, but Vegemite is high in the Vit b complexes and, while I’ve had those who will and those who won’t, some of my budgies have loved it. My current crop are not convinced enough, Misty and all budgie pre-him were all fans, Loki thinks he doesn’t but with a bit of cracker to sweeten the deal, he eats it.Getting that first taste into them is the hard part, but might be something worth considering. Hope you had an uneventful bank holiday weekend. xx
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 20, 2022 10:15:44 GMT
sweetpea, in my foggy Covid-brain I had a thought … my head hurts anyway so I won’t answer that question … someone recently told me that they were recommended to take Vit b supplements for a neurological condition and I thought of Perry, while I was putting Vegemite on my crackers. I don’t know about marmite, but Vegemite is high in the Vit b complexes and, while I’ve had those who will and those who won’t, some of my budgies have loved it. My current crop are not convinced enough, Misty and all budgie pre-him were all fans, Loki thinks he doesn’t but with a bit of cracker to sweeten the deal, he eats it.Getting that first taste into them is the hard part, but might be something worth considering. Hope you had an uneventful bank holiday weekend. xx Thanks Hezz. I had a quick google & the vit b12 is apparently good for brain health so you may have a good point there. I'm not sure that I will manage to get Marmite into Perry (they're not great at trying new things!) but maybe there is another way of getting vit B into him. The last few days have been a bit up & down. On Saturday, Perry was pretty bad - no seizures, but he was very lethargic & kept hanging his head at strange angles. Really weird. He only ate millet that I offered. He's gradually got a bit better, though this morning he is a bit manic & wanting to fly but I don't want him to have an accident as when he's in this mood his flying attempts are extremely erratic. They have all had chamomile tea in their water. It certainly hasn't calmed down Moriarty's 'wiggling' activities...  |
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Post by Hezz on Sept 21, 2022 0:41:33 GMT
Sorry to hear that Perry has been up and down, and I can only imagine what his flying would be like in such a state. Much better to restrict the poor love.
This might be off the radar, as well, but mentioned him holding his head a odd angles which made stargazing/twirling come to mind. A quick look on “Beauty of Birds” suggests that Vit b 12 as a treatment:
Treatment for Stargazing
The following treatments have been reported as being fairly effective:
Nystatin
Trimethoprim Sulfa
Vitamin B 12 to strengthen the nervous system
Enhanced nutrition to correct any nutritional deficiencies
This was copied from their site Stargazing/Twirling
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 29, 2022 10:41:03 GMT
Epiphen arrived yesterday. I still haven't administered. Dosage is 0.01 which is going to be a difficult amount to measure. Awful morning so far. Perry not doing anything & I can't quite work out what is wrong with him. His legs seem weak but he's able to use them - scratching head & holding on with one leg when other raised. He's had a bit of millet. No water. He's aware of Moriarty prowling around above. M is bouncing off the walls wanting to play but P's not coming out & Lennie is choosing to stay in with P. I have to lock M in his own cage at times (when he goes in) so I can offer P food/water without M barging in & causing chaos.  Yesterday P was very quiet (but eating & drinking when offered) but he was in M's cage so at least M could bounce between P & L. (I can only have M & L together without P as otherwise they bump chests over him). I witnessed a seizure last night - first for 7 days (not to say he hasn't been having hundreds whilst I've not been in the room....) |
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Post by Hezz on Sept 30, 2022 0:28:24 GMT
😟Poor little fella. I can only imagine how hard you are finding this. Fingers crossed for you both that the new treatment works for him. xx
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 30, 2022 10:22:03 GMT
I managed to get him into Moriarty's yesterday afternoon. Moriarty didn't leave his side for hours. He seems slightly better this morning. I popped him into Moriarty's (he's still not very mobile) & he's had some millet & water & a little flirt. He's a little more vocal - yesterday he was silent. There's no evidence of disturbance overnight, so I assume they've all had a decent sleep. I asked the vet if I could administer a larger, diluted, amount of the Epiphen but you can't.  I recall all the struggles with Bezukhov's medication & 0.01 is near impossible to give. It's basically nothing. A slight bump on the syringe & it's gone. Holding a bird & keeping the syringe stable, plus pushing the plunger at the right moment is, to say the least, challenging. I'll see if I can pop a drop on some millet... though still undecided whether to start the regime...  |
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Post by criswell on Sept 30, 2022 11:45:44 GMT
Poor Perry. I'm glad he enjoyed his time with Moriarty.
Do you have a 0.3ml syringe? That's what our vet gives us. I've used it for 0.01ml doses before and you get a really tiny little drip but it does work.
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Post by ladybird on Sept 30, 2022 11:54:48 GMT
When Charlie is on antibiotics, the dose is 0.02…….I find if I rinse the syringe in warm water first, and then draw up the antibiotic, it slide out into his mouth better. Charlie protests a lot and that’s when I pop the end of syringe into his mouth and press…….It’s still difficult to know if he has got any of it though….so I feel for you I really do…x
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Post by sweetpea on Sept 30, 2022 12:58:50 GMT
Poor Perry. I'm glad he enjoyed his time with Moriarty. Do you have a 0.3ml syringe? That's what our vet gives us. I've used it for 0.01ml doses before and you get a really tiny little drip but it does work. I only have the 1ml ones. A quick google & I can only find 0.3ml ones with needle and/or in packs of 100! When I have a moment, I might pop into the vet around the corner & see if they have any. |
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I recall all the struggles with Bezukhov's medication & 0.01 is near impossible to give. It's basically nothing. A slight bump on the syringe & it's gone. Holding a bird & keeping the syringe stable, plus pushing the plunger at the right moment is, to say the least, challenging.
