Xanthomas on body

[rory]

I had Ripley at the avian vets on Monday because he has lumps and bumps that I thought were cysts. The vet said they were xanthomas but was stumped as to what was growing out of them - he said he's been an avian vet for 25years and has not seen anything quite like that on a budgie. Needless to say, I'm worried. He took pictures (for his research) and ended up pulling two nodules/scabs off (one bled one didn't) and cleaned up some messy feathers by plucking them out. Apparently Ripley has a liver issue as well (though the vet couldn't understand why since he is so young [2.5years old] + gets a good variety diet) so we were given milk thistle for his water and were instructed to get him on a full pellet/veggie/fruit/sprouted seed diet - no more seed - so I'm in the process of that and it's going well. He said diet alone may reduce the growths, that he wouldn't do surgery (as he is unsure as to how intricate they are due to the size and that there wouldn't be enough skin to sew up) and to make sure he gets exercised (which he does but I'm increasing).

A couple evenings ago my mum caught Ripley picking at a third nodule on a growth and he made it bleed (this nodule wasn't yet poking out when we were at the vets). We cleaned him up with warm water and slight pressure (it wasn't pouring out, just specks as I held it down) and then put him to bed early. He left them alone for a couple days, and then this evening again he had a bit of blood on his beak from preening around them. Other than that, he's acting 100% himself.

So my questions - the vet isn't open until Monday and I will call then to ask, but for future reference do you know what can be done for a bleeding bird? I know corn starch for nails/beak, but what about on the body? Anything natural?

I'm presuming this will be an ongoing battle for Ripley, so are there any tips for helping reduce the size of xanthomas without surgery or diet changes (or any other foods/vitamins/supplements to add to his diet - is apple cider vinegar something to think of)?

Thanks.

[stace]

Hi Rory, Ask your vet about possible iodine supplementation to break down the fatty tissue.

I just read through this from my vet's website. He talks about his own product, called Ioford, but it's basically an iodine product.

www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/er/conditions.html

[barrieshutt]

a drop of vaseline will stop any bleeds Rory

[Marianne Marlow]

Not sure why your vet was confused as to why a young bird had a liver issue. I believe it's probably genetic.

My Jerry had a liver issue and he was only 2 and a half when he died from it. I give my birds a good diet too, lots of healthy stuff, not too much of one thing or another and lots of exercise.

[Marianne Marlow]

Milk thistle is good for the liver.

I bought seeds and crushed them into the food. It's a painstaking process de-husking them after they are crushed though!

[Hezz]

Isn't it just!? I found the best way was to put them through a kitchen sieve, but you have to make sure you really grind the milk thistle seeds right down though. Another thing I tried was wheat grass. None of my bird took to it too much, but I know they did have a nibble in the process of getting to the regular seeded grasses that I gave them.

Another thing I was doing was making a milk thistle tea/infusion and making this their drinking water. Second reading, sorry, I see your vet has already got you doing this. While I didn't go down the pellet road, I did remove the birds' seed for large periods of the day and provide them with heaps of veges and grasses, so that they would have a greater amount of this type of food and my seed consumption was cut by about a half. Now I find that my remaining two are really looking for the grasses and veges, even when I have been slack in not removing their seed.

From the little I have looked for - I wasn't sure what a xanthoma was - it seems they are relatively common to budgies, so maybe your vet has just been very lucky/unlucky not to have come across them before. Or are they different in some way? It seems that keeping your bird from picking at them is one of the great issues with these - maybe some soothing aloe would help in that area - it is budgie-safe and can give relief to skin ailments. Hope Ripley benefits from the new diet, and makes a full recovery. Please keep us updated on his progress.

[BudgiesBuddy]

Which forms of Milk Thistle are good for budgies?

[rory]

Thank you all so much for your replies! I appreciate them all

Stace - When I call tomorrow I'm going to ask them about an iodine supplement. He has a block, but I don't believe he uses it all that much (he'd rather play). Thank you for the link!

Barrie - awesome! Just what I needed to know. So far he has been preening around the areas (today) but I have the Vaseline on hand if need be.

Marianne - I believe the go to reply for the avian vets here (when there is a liver issue) is to cut back on the seed - when I informed him that Ripley gets 1 tsp of seed a day, the rest is pellets/vegs/fruit he did blame genetics (Ripley is from a breeder that claims to have never had liver issues in their flock as I'm in constant contact with her) and told me to put him on all pellets to eliminate more fat. We are on Milk Thistle in his water but gonna look into other forms as well. Thank you and I'm sorry about Jerry.

Hezz - they were different - on the xanthoma was another growth (or two) and on those there were tinier ones. It was like they were all growing out from one another and he went to the root of those growths and took them off (leaving the actual xanthoma). It was the growths rather than the xanthoma that he was perplexed about. Thanks so much for all the advice and well wishes! We have aloe around, so I'm going to keep it on hand. So far today he seems to be preening around them rather than at them.

BudgiesBuddy - thank you!! That is perfect! I will go to my health food store once I start running low on the Milk Thistle mix I got from the vet.

[Hezz]

Rory, the milk thistle tincture drops (NOT alcohol based) are the best thing for adding to Ripley's water once you finish the vet's stuff. I am sure you guys have no problem getting it in UK, order on-line is usually cheaper, but any of the other milk thistle products work, too. The cacpsules and the drops are concentrated doses, whereas the teabags are basically dried milkthistle and therefore quite mild.

Another thing you may wish to try with Ripley is a liver detox which also has milk thistle in it but lots of other good naturally detoxifying herbs and things too - silly me, I see BB did put up a picture a liver detox. Hope this helps!

[rory]

Thanks, Hezz

I'm actually in Canada, but I'm going to look around as well and maybe can even order some in. I have quite a bit of mixture from the vets at the moment, but it doesn't hurt to do some homework on it. I will also look for the liver detox!