Need help taming newly-bought very young budgie!

[barrieshutt]

having looked at peppers picture on face book my advice is to return him to the pet store today.

rachael will copy and post my FB comments on this thread

[barrieshutt]

MANY BABIES BECOME STRESSED AS THEY ARE DUE TO LEAVE THE NEST BOX , THIS IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEIR PARENTS ARE WITHOLDING FOOD TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO CRACK SEED THEMSELVES. Because they are not feeding they drop their main primary feathers, wings and tails , these are the feathers that require the most protein to succesfully grow. French Moult in most cases will show signs of blood on the quills. last is it could be parrot beak and feather disease which is very contagious , the shape of the beak is the give away sign for PBFD as it has a square shaped tip to it. My gut feeling is the bird is stressed and the feathers will regrow. For any breeders out there always supply a millet spray inside the nest box once the chicks are 21-28 days old, also serve jap millet in a seperate dish, jap is soft and easy for then to crack. When a chick leaves the box it has no idea what a seed pot or a water fountain is, water is important, no water and they will dehydrate and drop their feathers. All my chicks once they leave the nest box have their beaks dipped in their water 2 - 3 times a day until they get the message.

[BudgiesBuddy]

Great post Barrie

[Bird Junky]

Hello David. Instead of picking up the odd bits of info on

the WWW. I think you would learn all about the right

foods & needs & training info for your budgie on the

posts on this site. There is a lot of wrong info out

on the WWW. I also think your bird may have French

moult. If I'm wrong the feathers will most likely grow

back at his next moult . Yours B.J.

[David]

May 30, 2012 21:33:18 GMT Rachael Kellett said:

May 30, 2012 19:32:39 GMT David said:

===========

Hey Rachael!

Thanks for taking time in looking at my budgie's pics!

Are your sure Pepper's a male? I mean, I'd be happy if Pepper's a male, 'cause that's what I'm hoping for! I heard males can learn to talk easier than females! But, in actuality, Pepper's cere is still purplish-white.. the usual cere color of baby budgies? I dunno. You're the expert.

And as for the wings, Are they really cut off? Or are they just still growing? You see Pepper still has his full cap of stripes on, hasn't gone into his first molt yet. So he's still probably less than four months. I've heard that 2 to 3 month old baby budgies are still growing their feathers and all. So I might be considering that they're not actually clipped, rather are still growing.. I think. I haven't thoroughly checked though, 'cause I'm still in the middle of hand taming the little fella, and I don't want to traumatize it by having ten fingers sprawling around its body checking it's feathers. ;D

EDIT: Now that you've mentioned it, I rechecked the pics I uploaded, and yes, it does look like they're clipped in the pictures. Now I took note which feathers looked clipped in the photos and took a good look at the actual same feathers on Pepper, and the feathers don't seem to be clipped or cut in any way. The edges seem to be straight like it was clipped or cut, but the the black color of the feather doesn't reach the straight tip, rather, it recedes to a white color. If it was clipped in some way, the edge where the clipping was done should be black (same as the rest of the unclipped feather). But amazingly, the edge was rather white, then the black part starts a few millimeters away from the supposed to be clipped edge.

I dunno if I'm making sense here, or if you're getting the picture I'm trying to describe. So I just posted a number of new pictures which are up close and are a lot better than the ones previously uploaded. You may take a look and see. Thanks a bunch, Rachael!

Yes Pepper is definitely a male, males have a purple and pale blue cere whereas young females have a very light blue cere with white around the nostrils.

Pepper looks to be around 8 weeks old so yes he is very young but even at that age he should have all his wing flight feathers, they wouldn't still be growing in. It looks like they have been clipped or he could have something called french moult, I am sure someone will be along soon and will be able to tell you for sure. Either way his wings should not look like that.

===

Hey Rachael.

So, I researched last night about french moult, and by God I was terrified! I became worried about my budgie that I immediately went to the vet first thing this morning. The vet took poop samples and had a look at Pepper. Turns out, he's healthy (no indications of illnesses in the poop) and the vet said that it may not be french moult. Pepper might just be still growing out his feathers. He explained something about how the feathers still looked like growing, like how the coloration and stuff like that that I didn't fully understand though (LOL, haha) but the bottomline, she said that it may not be french moult. She told me to just wait till he grows his feathers and all.

I'm so relieved! Anyway, I uploaded MORE pictures of Pepper up on my facebook link, and I'm gonna attach one here.

Another quick question though, when I go out and Pepper's alone in the house, I leave some music/sound to make Pepper feel safe. Should I leave on some human music, or would it be better for him to listen to budgie chirps and stuff? He's really excited when he hears other budgie sounds, but it worries me that it might hinder him from learning how to talk.

[David]

May 31, 2012 6:20:17 GMT barrieshutt said:

MANY BABIES BECOME STRESSED AS THEY ARE DUE TO LEAVE THE NEST BOX , THIS IS DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEIR PARENTS ARE WITHOLDING FOOD TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO CRACK SEED THEMSELVES. Because they are not feeding they drop their main primary feathers, wings and tails , these are the feathers that require the most protein to succesfully grow. French Moult in most cases will show signs of blood on the quills. last is it could be parrot beak and feather disease which is very contagious , the shape of the beak is the give away sign for PBFD as it has a square shaped tip to it. My gut feeling is the bird is stressed and the feathers will regrow. For any breeders out there always supply a millet spray inside the nest box once the chicks are 21-28 days old, also serve jap millet in a seperate dish, jap is soft and easy for then to crack. When a chick leaves the box it has no idea what a seed pot or a water fountain is, water is important, no water and they will dehydrate and drop their feathers. All my chicks once they leave the nest box have their beaks dipped in their water 2 - 3 times a day until they get the message.

====

Very nice bit of info, Barrie! Thanks!

Well, like i said to Rachael, I brought my budgie to the vet today and she confirmed that it was nothing to be worried about. The feathers are still growing. (But come to think about it, she's not an avian vet. We don't have an avian vet in our town. We do have veterinaries, yes, but just two of them. And both do not specialize in any particular animal. Just animals in general.) So maybe the vet is wrong and this may be french moult? I dunno.

So if ever this IS actually french moult, what should I do? Can I prevent or cure it in some manner?

Pepper's eating and drinking just fine. I also can't find millet spray in our town. Folks here don't even know what that is. Sheesh. I used to buy one in Manila (our country's capital), but here in our province, there's none. All I'm feeding Pepper is a mix of millet seed, canary seed, and oat groats. I also leave some leafy greens hanging on his cage for him to munch on.

[David]

May 31, 2012 10:06:43 GMT Bird Junky said:

Hello David. Instead of picking up the odd bits of info on

the WWW. I think you would learn all about the right

foods & needs & training info for your budgie on the

posts on this site. There is a lot of wrong info out

on the WWW. I also think your bird may have French

moult. If I'm wrong the feathers will most likely grow

back at his next moult . Yours B.J.

=====

Exactly, B.J. I've found that out the hard way. I've read like numerous articles conflicting each other. Example, one article said budgies need nests to sleep in. While another said they do not. They only need perches to sleep in. There are other stuff out there that are not true about them, so it's best for me I guess to stay here in the forum.

And yes, I hope that the feathers will also grow back.

Thanks so much!

[skysmum]

David, sorry i haven't been able to comment on Pepper because i still can't open the facebook link and see him, probably my end as others have managed to. Pepper does not need a nest and any music will be fine to leave on when you go out but just as a low background noise, not blasting him off his perch ;D.

[David]

May 31, 2012 16:58:46 GMT skysmum said:

David, sorry i haven't been able to comment on Pepper because i still can't open the facebook link and see him, probably my end as others have managed to. Pepper does not need a nest and any music will be fine to leave on when you go out but just as a low background noise, not blasting him off his perch ;D.

Okay, as for the pics, I might as well place some here. And try to click on the link below.











What's your verdict?

(MORE newly uploaded pictures here: www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150889659366026.423054.731406025&type=1&l=eb69394c5a)

Okay, that's what I've been doing.. Just leaving some low background music for Pepper. But, I'm confused about if having Pepper listen to other budgie chirps on my laptop will hinder Pepper from learning how to talk?

[Marianne Marlow]

Hi

Gotta say that I agree that your bird has PBFD. Was your vet an Avian vet or just a run of the mill one?

If you look here there is an article about PBFD www.birds-online.de/gesundheit/gesgefieder/pbfd_en.htm

The budgie in the article has similar feathers to yours.

[Rachael Kellett]

We all strongly believe that your budgie may have PBFD or french moult. I thought you would want to see a photo of one of my budgies when they were young. Here is Alfie as about 9 weeks old, only a tiny bit older than your Pepper, note he has all of his wing flight feathers.

[skysmum]

David, Pepper is very sweet but im sorry to say that i have to agree with the other's about him having PBFD or French Moult. An Avian vet would have picked this up straight away i think.
I have a budgie with French Moult and this is a picture of him, it has got worse as he has got older he is 9 now. My boy is not the worst case but note his wings, very similar to your Pepper.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure about PBFD, but Munchy is suspected of having French Moult. I got him when he was five weeks old and he had no flight feathers. When they grew in, before the age that Pepper is, they were nearly white, barely any pigment, and the longest two on each wing would break and bleed, likely because they were too heavy for the strength of the feather pin. His longest two tail feathers are a little paler than his body too. French Moult can't be cured but Munchy hasn't dropped a feather like that since before his first moult and they seem to be shedding normally, so I'm hoping they won't break again. If Munchy's condition is French Moult then he has a very mild case of it, for which I'm thankful, but French Moult isn't the end of the world. You probably shouldn't ever breed Pepper, but if his feathers don't grow in then make sure his perches are low down and that he can hop between them. He can still be a lovely companion to you

[skysmum]

I agree with Ira, up until this year my Jo Jo has always managed to re-grow his flight feathers and has always lead a full and active life. As ive said he is nine now and this year has been the worst year as he doesn't seem to be re-growing them. He has been in an Aviary for five years or so and i have adapted the Aviary to bring the floors up for when he has his Moult's so that he does not have so far to fall and placed very low perches for him to be able to climb back up. He is a lovely boy and very friendly. Pepper may well grow in the feathers it depends how bad it is, its just something you have to accept with him as im sure you have already fallen for the little guy. You should never breed from him as you will be passing it on but as Ira said you will still have a lovely little friend. I wouldn't part with Jo Jo for the world

[Deleted]

I feel the same about Munchy, skysmum. One day, he'll probably fail to grow them back in when his body starts to age. I just make sure to supply egg food during his moults so that he has enough protein to increase the chances of him having stronger feathers, which might be why they haven't broken recently.

Be careful not to cause protein overdose, but if you can get Pepper to enjoy vegetables and things, trying him with hard boiled egg. Make sure it's fully cooked, not at all raw. I feed Munchy one approximately every month. I don't know how many days they keep for in the fridge but I've never trusted eggs, so I give him half one day and half the next, he never eats it all but he loves them, so it's not a problem. If you wanted to give a quarter one day and a quarter the next you could always eat the other half yourself ;D

You can supply dry or moist egg food, depending on Pepper's preference, during the proper moult, or buy this liquid version called moultone that the bird seller in the market told me about when he thought I wanted a finger feeder like breeders use to give egg food to breeding birds. It's a thin, shallow tray that can be inserted through the bars and clips to them as egg food is generally quite rich and they don't need much.

When Munchy lost his outer wing feathers, especially the first time as he lost one from each wing on the same day, he was very off balance, so I lowered all his perches to make sure he wouldn't hurt himself if he fell, although he could glide, and then once he adjusted I could raise them again, although they're not really all that high now anyway as I prefer the cage perches lower down because he always looks cramped when they're up high and it encourages him to come out as he has one at the level of the door.

If Pepper's feathers never grow in, then just make sure they're low. If they do grow in, I recommend setting yourself up with some cornflour in a handy place in case they ever do break like Munchy's feathers. He would flap his wings and one would slip out of place, but not break off fully. It would bleed and the first time his side were soaked with blood and he plucked all the feathers to remove the staining, probably natural instinct to prevent predators from smelling blood on him as he was still nervous around us at the time. So, after that mishap, I would catch him up and feel the wing gently for where the broken feather shaft was among the rest of his wing feathers and then pack that area with cornflour. That would staunch the bleed and then I would let Munchy go back to a perch and he would break the feather off himself, which meant that it didn't bleed anymore. I've heard that you need to remove the tip, which a vet should do, but I've never done it and his new feathers have grown in fine.

It may never come to any of that, and I hope it won't. As soon as I saw Pepper's pictures I thought 'French moult' though, sadly. In some ways it may be better if Pepper's feathers don't grow in as at least then he won't miss flying if he can't manage it in the future, but hopefully everything will be okay. If the worst comes to the worst, you'll find a way to cope. Pepper won't be any less of a friend to you just because he can't fly and it won't stop him from learning to talk if he wants to. He might not talk for a while, just keep repeating phrases around him that you'd like him to say, even if he doesn't repeat any of them for months. When Munchy first began to talk he would only mutter the words and you could only hear them if he was right next to your ear, but often times he'll speak really clearly now (unless we want him to, and then he won't ;D )