Jan 24, 2014 10:26:00 GMT
ross82
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 32
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Post by ross82 on Jan 24, 2014 11:52:17 GMT
Hi Everyone,
I had a rather good chat with our local vet regarding a budgies environment. We keep our two lads indoors and they pretty much have the run of the house. Now much like everyone else we try to keep the areas there in well ventilated and free from strong odours that could be harmful, sprays, perfumes, cleaning fluids etc.
What was interesting was he mentioned central heating and do we have a pilot light. Now like most houses we do, but this can have a cumulative effect to a budgies health, even though it is in a room which they do not go in.
I must admit this is something that I didn’t even think of.
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Post by birdguhl on Jan 24, 2014 11:56:45 GMT
I've certainly never thought of that either. But my thinking would be that it is impossible to make a shared environment completely hazard-free for budgies or humans - some things we just have to live with.
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Post by starlingqueen on Jan 24, 2014 12:04:33 GMT
How does a pilot light affect birds exactly?
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Jan 24, 2014 10:26:00 GMT
ross82
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 32
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Post by ross82 on Jan 24, 2014 12:31:22 GMT
How does a pilot light affect birds exactly? With any fossil fuel being burnt it emits Carbon Monoxide, the cumulative effect over time would be the respiratory health of the bird. As birdguhl said though it would be impossible to make everything hazard free, and you could very easily get carried away with it..... you could even consider the carbon dioxide emitted from a fridge.
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Post by OP on Jan 24, 2014 12:46:04 GMT
Speaking as an ex gas engineer, many years ago, if a pilot light is burning correctly then the only by-product would be Co2, water vapour. Any pilot light or gas burner that is not burning correctly will give off carbon monoxide, a poisonous gas. Other fossil fuels are very rarely burnt to complete combustion will emit carbon monoxide. The only other thing about an open flame, be it a pilot light or gas stove, is that it consumes oxygen. It needs oxygen to burn. Personally I think your informant was over stating things slightly.
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Post by starlingqueen on Jan 24, 2014 12:52:21 GMT
Speaking as an ex gas engineer, many years ago, if a pilot light is burning correctly then the only by-product would be Co2, water vapour. Any pilot light or gas burner that is not burning correctly will give off carbon monoxide, a poisonous gas. Other fossil fuels are very rarely burnt to complete combustion will emit carbon monoxide. The only other thing about an open flame, be it a pilot light or gas stove, is that it consumes oxygen. It needs oxygen to burn. Personally I think your informant was over stating things slightly. That's what I thought Pops. I have my aviary in my utility room with the boiler. I have a carbon-monoxide detector in there so I am alerted to any leaks straight away.
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Jan 24, 2014 10:26:00 GMT
ross82
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 32
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Post by ross82 on Jan 24, 2014 14:11:39 GMT
Personally I think your informant was over stating things slightly. I wouldn’t say he was overstating things, more highlighting a potential hazard. A heating system correctly installed but not properly maintained may have the potential to produce CO, much like dirt blockages, or using gas fired equipment with poor air flow and no ventilation. Again as I stated above you can go too far into making things hazard free and overthink things, but the point I’m emphasizing is that who would have given thought to this as being a potential problem for a bird’s health. If anything it also highlights the need for continued maintenance and servicing not only for household animals wellbeing but also occupants as well, especially with up to (Gov UK 2011) 4000 hospitalised cases and 50 deaths a year….. hmm what a bit of tangent there
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Post by phoebe on Jan 24, 2014 15:21:55 GMT
Personally I think your informant was over stating things slightly. I wouldn’t say he was overstating things, more highlighting a potential hazard. A heating system correctly installed but not properly maintained may have the potential to produce CO, much like dirt blockages, or using gas fired equipment with poor air flow and no ventilation. Again as I stated above you can go too far into making things hazard free and overthink things, but the point I’m emphasizing is that who would have given thought to this as being a potential problem for a bird’s health. If anything it also highlights the need for continued maintenance and servicing not only for household animals wellbeing but also occupants as well, especially with up to (Gov UK 2011) 4000 hospitalised cases and 50 deaths a year….. hmm what a bit of tangent there When we owned a house I once started feeling very tired and didn't know why. After a while there was smoke in the house. We thought it was on fire and called the fire department. I was alone with my girls who were young. They came and found the pilot had gone array and somehow was making smoke. I am not sure the type of furnace it was but a carbon monoxide detector would have picked up on the problem much faster. I did not have birds back then but they would have been seriously ill for sure if I had them.
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Post by OP on Jan 25, 2014 7:59:16 GMT
Hi Everyone, I had a rather good chat with our local vet regarding a budgies environment. We keep our two lads indoors and they pretty much have the run of the house. Now much like everyone else we try to keep the areas there in well ventilated and free from strong odours that could be harmful, sprays, perfumes, cleaning fluids etc. What was interesting was he mentioned central heating and do we have a pilot light. Now like most houses we do, but this can have a cumulative effect to a budgies health, even though it is in a room which they do not go in. I must admit this is something that I didn’t even think of. This is the point that I was referring to. If a burning flame, be it pilot light or other that is not burning correctly will emit carbon monoxide. This gas in sufficient quantities is fatal. It is not cumulative in the sense of a small amount interspersed with clean oxygenated air. I have no wish whatsoever to contradict what is said, but the statement highlighted could put the frighteners on a lot of budgie owners. Your point(s) about correct maintenance are well founded and really good advice. I hope there are no hard feelings.
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Jan 24, 2014 10:26:00 GMT
ross82
Brand New Budgie
Posts: 32
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Post by ross82 on Jan 25, 2014 9:18:20 GMT
Don’t be silly no hard feelings here…. Sharing knowledge and thoughts on a subject we all hold dear is why I singed back onto the boards I do agree though that maybe a more appropriate re-wording could avoid putting the frights into people
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Post by samwiseg on Jan 25, 2014 10:17:06 GMT
Good info OP - we also have Carbon Monoxide alarm sensors in the lounge and in the kitchen next to our combi boiler too which helps
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Post by phoebe on Jan 25, 2014 15:22:57 GMT
Probably too furnaces are built much better today than ours was in that old house. Even my husband couldn't remember exactly what it was but that it could work partly on oil and then electricity. When that incident occurred it was not repaired and it was made to function solely on electricity. That is what my husband remembers of the incident.
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Post by starlingqueen on Jan 25, 2014 15:34:32 GMT
I have a story about a carbon monoxide detector. Our one started to bleep intermittently indicating that it was faulty so we bought a new one and hubby threw the old one in the bin in the kitchen. That night we could hear a bleeping sound. It woke my son who woke me worried we were all going to burn to death in a blazing fire. I came downstairs and couldn't work out what it was straight away. 4am wandering around the kitchen in the buff listening for where this sound was coming from. Eventually tracked it down to the bin. There was no way I was routing around in the bin at that hour, so I took the bin outside the back door and went to bed still wondering what on earth it was making the noise. I eventually realised some time later that day. So maybe we should be more concerned about the gasses being given off by food breaking down in our bins.
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Post by OP on Jan 25, 2014 15:36:01 GMT
Going back to my days as a gas engineer, there were no such thing as a room sealed boiler let alone a combi. They were run on what was known as 'town gas' or 'coal gas'. That was when boilers. water heaters, hot air central heating units needed cleaning on a regular basis as the flue would block with soot deposits. On many occasion I would come across a pilot light burning up the outside of the casing. That was carbon monoxide and little all else, yet the occupants would have a budgie or canary. Maybe they pets didn't live a long life, but that's how it was.
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Post by OP on Jan 25, 2014 15:42:08 GMT
Oh Dear! starlingqueen. British Gas used to install those wretched carbon monoxide detectors. They went faulty after a while and the only way to stop the bleeping was take the batteries out. I can just imagine the scene with you trailing around the kitchen trying to find the source of the noise.
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