Help incubation time for an egg with a chart

[wocal]

Hi, so I'm using a chart from this forum, but it's not working for me. It's the chart that you look at the date and underneath is the date it will hatch.But my budgie just hatched today and the date is wrong. So, I must be confused. Do budgies hatch on the 18th day or the 21st?

[Hezz]

Just like when human babies decide their time is up, the same is true for budgies, or any animal for that matter. Times for gestation or incubation are a guide, not set in stone. 18-21 days is usually given as the time frame for budgie eggs to hatch.

[wocal]

Sounds good. So, then they say online and in books I read that you have to stop turning it 3 days before its hatch day. Do I Stop turning it on the 18th day or the 15th?

[Hezz]

I think you would have to ask a breeder who takes eggs from the parents. I don't know anyone who does that. The hen would instinctively know what to do.

[Morgan]

I know with chicken eggs you stop turning on the 18th day for an expected 21-day hatch. If the chick decides to hatch early there’s kinda nothing you can do about that.

You could maybe stop turning on the 17th day to hedge your bets, and if all the eggs seem to be hatching at 18 days you can adjust and stop turning on the 16th or 15th day.

Since not a lot of people pull budgie eggs you’re going to have a bit of self-learning through your own experience to go on - or see if you can find a breeder who does this to get some external experience from.

Try contacting Featherbelle Aviary by email at [e-mail] She’s pretty responsive and has a lot of baby bird raising experience - dunno if she pulls eggs either though, but maybe she’s had to before and could at least give her experience.

[wocal]

Morgan So, I found out they hatch on day 21. I went with my gut and did day 15 instead of day 18 to stop rotating, but it I turned out to be off. The chart was right on this one, but it was wrong with another budgie of the same clutch. But I think over all it is correct. The baby hatched with no problem still. I linked the pic of the baby and the chart I got from this site.

[Morgan]

wocal - Thanks for the update! I’m glad they all hatched successfully! Just curious, what incubator do you use? I was looking at them not too long ago for our chickens, but then one of our hens decided to go broody anyway so we just left them with her.

Gosh they’re like little gummy-birdies when they hatch! It’s kinda crazy to imagine that little pink body all wrapped up in an egg the size of the one next to it! Is that one a day old or so or just hatched? It looks too big to fit in that tiny egg!

[wocal]

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KD75VHW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Morgan

This is the exact one I used, but it is a Chinese rip off of another brand. So, any that look like this and others work well. As long as you keep the temp consistent/humidity and rotate them (which this has an auto rotator) often then you're looking good.

Yeah, this is a day zero lol. It hatched this morning. Lord willing I can keep it alive. I'll try to keep you posted with a new thread or something. If you need help picking out an incubator or anything else human interventiony hit me up. Side note I started giving my birds calcium powder in their chop to get them ready for the second clutch in a month and hey have been loving it.

[Morgan]

Oh cool, thanks!

It’s the feeding of such tiny ones I don’t envy you for! Every two hours I believe? Do they need a full eight hours overnight to empty their crop or do you have to get up once to feed at four hours? I can’t remember from when I looked into it. I finally settled on co-parenting, if anything, if I decide to breed - but I wanted to be prepared in case I had to rescue a younger one. I know with three weeks and up the feeding is less exhausting at every four hours and none overnight - but there’s certainly no sleeping in, in the morning! Baby birds come before coffee (Or maybe pre-prep the coffee for focus!)

Ok now I’m curious about the brooder you are using! The breeders I got my linnie from had a very expensive-looking setup, all electronic and programmable, but I know many get along fine with a sort of ceramic heat-bulb / insulated nest setup. But then you still need to account for humidity in the nest cause the heat bulbs can dry out the air, and very young baby budgies need darkness for their eyes to develop properly. So many variables...

It must be very rewarding when they are growing up healthfully though!

Oh another one - what formula do you use? Harrison’s seems pretty complete but it’s super expensive because no one carries it in store and their shipping costs are just ridiculous. But Nekton makes a formula that I think I heard was decent and is relatively economic to purchase online. I would want to have some on hand myself even if I was planning on parent-raised babies. Once heard terrible things about Kaytee, and Roudybush’s ingredients just don’t sound complete to me, I think that’s all I’ve looked into.

[wocal]

Ever two hours the first week. Night feedings after 5 hours so midnight to 5a. the first week then you can go 8 hours. Some breeders just do 8 hours on the start because in the wild they do that. then you move them to every 3 hours then 4 hours and so on. and you feed them 10% of their weight in cc every feeding. so if the weigh 10 grams you give them 1cc/1mm.

For my brooders that's what I had to experiment with the most. I want to but the brinsea incubators so it takes out the guess work of humidity and temperature, but the cheapest one is almost 400 and if you have multiple clutches at the same time and need them separated it won't work. I have multiple set ups I'm experimenting with (that have all worked so far) to save money and have the max amount of clutches in brooders. So, my main one I've used for helping the egg bound hen get back to healthy is an aquarium with a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter bulb pointing at the opening to keep it at about 92 degrees and 40 percent humidity. I used the same set up for the hens white face babies I had to take over when she got sick, but I put them in a plastic bin with a kitchen towel over it so they didn't get hit by the heat directly and it stayed at about 92 degrees. as they got older I moved the box further away from the lamp so it would reduce in degrees. and now I'm trying a different set up with a different plastic bin and new heating pad. So, I can be ready for when the budgie leaves the incubator it is nice and warm.

Now midway through taking care of the white face cockatiels about two weeks ago my pet shop owner friend had a lady he sold birds to that bread them, but only wanted 1 bird but she wanted hers handfed, so he asked if he could pay me to handfeed them for her and then I get to keep one too. those are the 2 of the 3 lutino cockatiels in the aquarium incubator. When I first got them though they I had them in a plastic box similar to the one in the aquarium, but with with a heating pad that has a "stay on function turned to 4 out of 6 to keep them warm with a towel over the box so the heat stays in. You also have to put the heating pad on half of the box so that if it gets too hot for them they can move to the side with no pad underneath.

As far as Formula I have only used kaytee brand unfortunately. I've heard horror storys before about them, but it was what I started with. I bought henneg to try with the budgies, but I read a cockatiel forum a couple weeks back where they were talking about what formula to use and everyone was trashing on kaytee, but the dude sited just as many recalls and problems with other formulas. it's mostly where they get packed at and some brands get packed at the same place. but unless you make your own you're taking a risk. I personally have never had a problem with kaytee, but My petshop friend said he can get me wholesale prices for some brand I can't remember and kaytee and they are far cheaper than on amazon. I'll stick with the formula that works for me. It's more in how you prepare it than anything. There are videos on how to prepare correctly and how to avoid bacteria and all a lot of other things that go into why a formula would be blamed for human error. I threw in a bonus box pic of the budgie siblings of the incubator baby who are a few days older.

[Morgan]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that!

Nekton formula can be found on allbirdproducts.com if you wanted to check it out just for funsies, and they ship really quickly to California, I think I got my shipment in two days. I use this site to buy my Guardian Angel, liquid calcium (Calcivet in Europe but they call it Calciboost here), etc. I’ve read all about mixing the formula properly and keeping it at the right temp during feeding (by putting the container of mixed formula in a larger one with hot water), throwing the leftovers out after each use, disinfecting all the equipment thoroughly, etc.

I was looking at Brinsea also, but the cost really doesn’t justify the few perks. I was going to buy this one, which literally does all the same except you have to open it to add more water, and it has a much larger capacity for half the cost, and no special inserts necessary for smaller eggs - but not sure if it would work for an egg as tiny as a budgie egg. It can do quail eggs though: incubatorwarehouse.com/egg-incubators/combokits/incuview-combo-kits.html

I did really like Brinsea’s radiant heat brooder though because the chicks can snuggle up next to it which is supposed to be more natural for them (chickens, that is, but maybe applies to budgies too?) but I have a heating pad (one that doesn’t turn off) hospital cage set up already that I can easily do with a plastic tote and towel instead - that was going to be my method if I had to use it. Awesome! This is really helpful for making me feel more prepared.

Ooo I like the paper towel over the bedding in the brooder. Smart! And the babies with the stuffed animals - that always gets me. They do that in wildlife rescues too

[wocal]

www.amazon.com/Digital-Incubator-Automatic-Humidity-Temperature/dp/B08GSH8XJ7/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=egg+incubator&qid=1606882220&sr=8-10



Morgan That incubator looks nice. Expensive though. I linked a 100 dollar one from amazon that has a higher capacity. and a video about Chinese incubators from a chicken farmer. you should check it out if you have time. I'm sure that incubator you linked would work for budgies too.

I'll look into nekton thanks for the link. I've heard about it before.

Are you talking about the one that goes into their brooder and they can go underneath? I've seen those in videos too. they work well from what I have seen. idk if they could work for parrots though. I guess I could test it one day.

I stole all of my brooder ideas from chicken brooders, forums, and old youtube videos of a love bird breeder. I didn't know they loved stuffed animals so much. Everyone has a different set up and says the others don't work in parrot breeding and there isn't a lot to go off of information wise, so it has been tough, but it seems the two best are the heat lamp and the shoebox heating pad route.

I'm sure chicken or parrots you'll do great with how much you wanna learn and how many people you can reach out too. I'm surprised you haven't started already.

[Morgan]

wocal - Yep, that’s the brooder! And it’s crazy expensive for how few chicks you can fit under it. :/ Not a fan of brinsea. The incubator Inwant is a bit expensive, but actually worth it for what it can do. It’s basically just like the $400 brinsea but actually better in most respects except for having to open it for a moment for humidity control. Imll take a look at the videos you linked when my connection allows it. I often have trouble loading videos where I live but it’s gotten better recently.

As for starting breeding... Well, first off I wanted my birds to be old enough. Pig, Goat, and Monkey are over a year now, Soul is just over two. Xephy is almost a year (in Jan), and my two youngest boys are still only 5-6 months. The newest girl is about a year and a half. The three girls are all in condition so I could technically start now-ish or soon, but it’s only getting colder and the days are too short. They will probably be going out of condition soon because I like to let my buds follow the seasons. I want them to not have such a shock when they are eventually moved into the aviary I plan on building this spring, so their room is kept at 60F at night right now and 65/70 during the day. Of course I will move them into the aviary while it’s warm and they can adapt to the cold naturally next year, but I figure it’s good for them to be used to a change in temp from the start. The aviary will have a fully insulated and temp-controlled room in the back they move in and out of as they need in the winter and which will be opened up during warmer months.

So I was recently considering starting round June (by then the aviary should be finished) so my two youngest boys are also over a year old. It’s more important for the girls to be well over a year, and they’ll be going on two and just past two by then. I’ll likely only breed them once because I’m not planning on starting a business - I just want to raise my own babies and will find good homes for most of them. I’m also letting them pick their own partners (though I will be breeding the pairs in separate flights) but it has occurred to me I could have rainbows in two generations with their colors depending on how they choose.

Adding in this new female is going to shake things up a bit, but so far Pig and Goat are a pair, Monkey (sf yf type 2, cobalt) occasionally hangs out with Soul (sky opaline greywing)) so I’m hoping they really hit it off, but he is not in condition right now and is less flirtatious than the youngsters, like Xephy (cobalt dom pied) especially, so she could choose him instead. So far she hasn’t really taken a fancy to any of the boys more than the others in particular. If the new girl (sky opaline clearwing) just happened to choose Topsie (sf yf type 1, cobalt opaline clearflight pied) then Monkey and Soul’s offspring (all yf, opaline or split for and all split for greywing) and the new girl and Topsie’s offspring (50% chance yf, opaline or split for, all split for clearwing, 50% chance clearflight pied) would give me a very decent chance of getting true rainbows if I kept the yf opalines each split for grey or clearwing. But my birds are first and foremost my pets so I don’t want to force anything on them.

I know that budgies don’t necessarily mate for life and will change partners, but in the wild they have much more choice to do this or not. In captivity I want to at least let them pick from the minimal options they do have rather than put them together of my own selfish desire. They’ll probably have healthier babies choosing for themselves anyway. I do have my fingers crossed though! As for Pig and Goat, who may be the only pair (so far showing evidence at least) to actually mate, their babies would just be special to me because Pig was my first baby! She’s a blue series dark eyed clear, and Goat is a sf yf type 2 sky, so he looks turquoise (they’re in my profile photo), and my favorite possible outcome from them would be a yellow faced sky blue clearflight pied. I have no idea what any of my birds’ splits could be as well, and Pig’s mutation could be masking almost anything (except yellowface I think), so that is also exciting!

So besides all this... I’ve done all the research and have almost all the supplies except the formula and syringes/special bent spoons and nest boxes (I have one on hand just in case one of my females ever did/does surprise me with an egg) which I would order at the same time. I would also love to complete this internship first that I had been accepted to but was then cancelled due to Covid, where I would learn how to tube feed, give injections, etc. before starting. They are accepting again now but it’s a first come first serve basis without a set schedule at the moment so I have to write to them and see what they say about availability. But if the birds decide they are ready (are in condition, not molting, healthy, pairing off, and showing real signs of interest in mating) I do feel prepared enough to start with three pairs. If one pair are bad parents I will have two more to foster eggs to, and I am confident enough I could step in if necessary.

Anyway, breeding my buds is not something I take doing lightly and I am already by nature an over-preparer! But I’ll be sure to let everyone here know when it happens and ask you any other questions that come up!

[wocal]

Awesome. Thanks for sharing your set up and ambitions. I hope you get into that internship. The budgies in your pics are dope. Goat is a very nice color. It also seems like your aviary set up is very nice. I've seen videos of stuff like that out in Europe and some parts of Cali where like they have a shed that's combined with the aviary, so when it starts to get colder they have the option. I can't have my birds outside in Cali where I live at night. My neighborhood is filled with racoons and I would get worried that no matter what set up gave them even if the racoons didn't get to them they would scare the hell out of my birds. Sounds like your ready though. It's always better to be an over preparer and if you are rehoming them I would love to buy some. especially down the road if you get rainbows. I tried to buy rainbows recently, but couldn't find them anywhere near me.

I like the brinsea brand from what I've researched about it. I see it being the standard of equipment. Like if you buy it you know it's gonna work and give you the least amount of hassle. That premium price is just keeps me away lol. If I bred chickens though I'd be all over those $1000 100+ egg self rotating, multiple clutch incubation day monitoring, alarm having incubators. Those things are nuts and I want one. I just have 0 use for it.

And waiting for them to be the right age to breed is always better. Especially for the egg binding scare. When we talked about the calcium thing I researched parrot breeders feeding their macaws sodium carbonate and from what I read from other parrot breeders they live by it. They say they haven't had an egg binding since and can breed more often and safer because their calcium levels are always so good. The only thing I haven't understood from researching yet, and maybe you can help with this. How do you monitor a birds calcium level? is their a device that does that? and I give my birds only a small amount of calcium powder, because I don't wanna overdose them, but I don't know what the measurement would be or if it's based on weight or how often they eat or how long it takes to restore their calcium levels or whatever.

[Morgan]

Do you mean calcium carbonate?

Overdosing on calcium can make it difficult for the birds to uptake other nutrients, so I’ve stopped giving liquid calcium that I used to give once or every other week. They also have a cuttlebone and calcium block that they all know to chew on by now so I’m not worried about a deficiency during non-breeding periods. As for breeding hens, they will need more. I’ve been wondering the same thing about knowing exactly how much is enough, but I trust the label on the CalciVet/CalciBoost that I use, which has been used by breeders for a very long time. I figure they know more than I do...

I don’t think there is a way to measure calcium levels outside of maybe sending in a poo sample to a lab or something? But I haven’t looked into it so maybe there’s a way to do it at home with minimal equipment, like a pH strip for calcium lol. I’ll have to do a bit of research there myself.

And yeah I live in northern Cali where we definitely have raccoons and such, but the roost is going to be in the insulated section so just like a well-built chicken coop nothing can get to them. It would be pretty close to them sleeping indoors in that room. There are also ways to set perches where nothing can reach a bird sitting on them from outside, and the aviary itself will have the option of dropping covers down the sides for an extra deterrence. Of course I’m going to be extra paranoid about everything before I move them in, and I may take them inside at night at first until I’m certain they’ll be comfortable and safe out there. I could always camp out with them a few nights It’ll be big enough to roll out my sleeping pad and then some.