|
Post by Ira on Feb 3, 2024 3:38:20 GMT
And that depends how many birds you want to screen individually and what for, Loz. My vet will accept a flock faecal sample for testing, but bloods are obviously individual to test for other infectious diseases. And with AGY you can have multiple negative results, because it's just currently not shedding. It's a minefield.
I feel bad for Haru for similar reason. I think even the vet was trying to wrap his head around why I'd stuck a bird that had been around an AGY positive bird in with her. But with her not eating it's like... what do you do for the best? January can be described as a month of poor decision making on my part.
|
|
|
Post by Loz on Feb 3, 2024 6:47:29 GMT
There's an argument that AGY is inevitable in almost any flock. Yes, I've been reading.
AGY can be asymptomatic and I've read that perhaps up to 50% of all budgies carry it. Thus anyone introducing new birds to their flock has a strong possibility of introducing AGY.
If this is the case, how can you realistically keep it out of your flock? Especially as testing doesn't always reveal the presence of AGY?
I've seen symptoms in my flock that could be explained by AGY over the past two years. There's a strong possibility that Patch died from it. That's uncertain but his symptoms certainly fit.
Perhaps the only thing you can do is provide a good diet and a stress-free environment for a flock, to give them the best chance to keep the symptoms of AGY at bay.
Treatment of AGY with an anti-fungal is a problem for me, personally. It has to be delivered twice a day for thirty days direct to the crop, apparently. The amount of stress that might cause could be enough to compromise the budgie's immune system, making the AGY (or any other) infection worse. That's assuming your vet will prescribe it (in the UK).
AGY is an awful disease but perhaps its something our budgies live with everyday? In which case, all we can do is what we are doing anyway, which is to supply the best diet and life we can for our budgies
This subject, if further discussed, probably belongs in its own thread in order not to further derail Ira's delightful Cagemantle stories.
|
|
|
Post by Ira on Feb 3, 2024 7:01:39 GMT
The antifungal they use isn't even available in the UK, according to my vets and several other people I've heard not be able to get it.
Thus sodium benzoate in the water can at least get things back under control.
There's been a lot of stress for my lot over the past few months. Perhaps that's what set it off. I'll never know for sure.
One of the vets said she'd teach me to give the antisickness injections if we'd decided to go down that route. We didn't, obviously, but the healthcare professional/scientist/owner that wants to be able to do everything for the birds in me would still love to learn.
|
|
|
Post by Ira on Feb 3, 2024 7:57:36 GMT
So we joked that Lady Haru Duckworthy (more on that later) is trying to infiltrate the Cagemantle crew, and thus she did away with Pippin so that she could pose as him... but I woke up just after 3 this morning and she was clanging away making the swing swing. So she's certainly channeling her inner Pippin. Haru was making her little quack sound on the car ride to the vet. It sounds so disgruntled and cute. Anyway, I told her that we would have to name her 'Lady Haru Duckworthy' and she promptly quacked at me in disapproval.
|
|
|
Post by Loz on Feb 3, 2024 8:06:08 GMT
Hen noises are the funniest It's the best of both worlds, budgie and duck. She will live up to her name, especially if she enjoys baths.
|
|
|
Post by blueelephant on Feb 3, 2024 8:30:03 GMT
AGY is a strange one. Toby has it pretty severely. He eats loads and vomits lots and is a sleepy little thing. He's clearly a poorly bird and has been for the last year. But he's not loosing weight, and he seems happy enough when he is active. Him and Barney are tight lovey dovey little pals, feeding each other etc. Barney has never shown any AGY symptoms yet he clearly must be a carrier. My vet said some birds within a flock are susceptible and others aren't. Who knows why. We did the anti fungal treatment for 30 days but it made no difference. At some point we will have to make the call with Toby, but I worry for Barney when we do. He's destined to be a sole bird once Toby's gone and I don't think that is fair on him. There's not really much point to this ramble but I thought I'd share. I hate AGY.
|
|
|
Post by Loz on Feb 3, 2024 8:36:22 GMT
AGY is a strange one. Toby has it pretty severely. He eats loads and vomits lots and is a sleepy little thing. He's clearly a poorly bird and has been for the last year. But he's not loosing weight, and he seems happy enough when he is active. Him and Barney are tight lovey dovey little pals, feeding each other etc. Barney has never shown any AGY symptoms yet he clearly must be a carrier. My vet said some birds within a flock are susceptible and others aren't. Who knows why. We did the anti fungal treatment for 30 days but it made no difference. At some point we will have to make the call with Toby, but I worry for Barney when we do. He's destined to be a sole bird once Toby's gone and I don't think that is fair on him. There's not really much point to this ramble but I thought I'd share. I hate AGY. Thank you for sharing that, BE. I agree that AGY is weird. It seems to me that you could have a small, well looked-after flock with AGY and you'd never know it but if an individual budgie is susceptible for whatever reason, that's when you find out all about it. Luck of the draw and good healthcare each play their part.
|
|
|
Post by blueelephant on Feb 3, 2024 8:42:42 GMT
Ira can I just ask you about the sodium benzoate treatment? I asked my vet about this and he said that they had a client that had tried it with their flock and 50% of the birds had died. However my brother knows of various show bird breeders that swear by it as a treatment. Has your vet prescribed the treatment for you and given you dosage info etc? I know your vet really knows their stuff so I would trust what they are saying obviously. I just wonder if the other treatment is becoming impossible to get now if vets are gaining more experience trying other things.
|
|
Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,815
|
Post by Marianne Marlow on Feb 3, 2024 9:02:09 GMT
My Sky had confirmed AGY(Macrorhadbus) in 2018, we gave him treatment and it prolonged his life by 3 months, but he was already almost 12 when he started to show symptoms. He kept losing weight, then I'd feed him up on boiled egg and millet. Until it no longer worked and one evening he passed away in my hand.
The vet did tell me that a lot of budgies carry AGY and it comes out when they are stressed. He's the only bird I have ever had that has shown those symptoms (touch wood)
|
|
|
Post by Loz on Feb 3, 2024 9:26:39 GMT
My Sky had confirmed AGY(Macrorhadbus) in 2018, we gave him treatment and it prolonged his life by 3 months, but he was already almost 12 when he started to show symptoms. He kept losing weight, then I'd feed him up on boiled egg and millet. Until it no longer worked and one evening he passed away in my hand. The vet did tell me that a lot of budgies carry AGY and it comes out when they are stressed. He's the only bird I have ever had that has shown those symptoms (touch wood) Thank you, Marianne. That is a valuable anecdote.
|
|
Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,815
|
Post by Marianne Marlow on Feb 3, 2024 11:06:32 GMT
My JoJo used to quack! So we joked that Lady Haru Duckworthy (more on that later) is trying to infiltrate the Cagemantle crew, and thus she did away with Pippin so that she could pose as him... but I woke up just after 3 this morning and she was clanging away making the swing swing. So she's certainly channeling her inner Pippin. Haru was making her little quack sound on the car ride to the vet. It sounds so disgruntled and cute. Anyway, I told her that we would have to name her 'Lady Haru Duckworthy' and she promptly quacked at me in disapproval.
|
|
|
Post by criswell on Feb 3, 2024 22:00:13 GMT
There's no need to feel guilty Ira. You had no way of knowing you had AGY in your flock. When Dean Stockwell came to live with us he brought PBFD with him, which he may have passed onto Randolph Carter. Randolph Carter had clamydia which he either had already, or caught from Dean Stockwell too. (He wasn't tested for clamydia but responded successfully to treatment so it was most likely that). So I know the risks of introducing new birds. And who knows what I could have brought in with a budgie from somewhere else. Dexters's immune system must be good to have dealt with the PBFD virus. None of them are showing any signs of AGY and Dexter so happy with his new friends, and we are happy to have them. I might go back to putting guardian angel in the water everyday. I started doing that on the advice of the bird care company to help Dean Stockwell when we realised he had PBFD as it bolsters the immune system. Dexter's had it in his water for about 3 years as I kept it up after Dean Stockwell died and he's been very healthy during that time. I reduced it to twice a week once Aster and Rito joined him but I might go back to using it daily to be on the safe side.
|
|
|
Post by Ira on Feb 4, 2024 12:42:53 GMT
Ira can I just ask you about the sodium benzoate treatment? I asked my vet about this and he said that they had a client that had tried it with their flock and 50% of the birds had died. However my brother knows of various show bird breeders that swear by it as a treatment. Has your vet prescribed the treatment for you and given you dosage info etc? I know your vet really knows their stuff so I would trust what they are saying obviously. I just wonder if the other treatment is becoming impossible to get now if vets are gaining more experience trying other things. Yeah, the vet said it tends to have the most notable effect in flocks where you're losing a bird or two every day. Unfortunately it doesn't tend to clear the AGY, just settles it down. But then again, Amphotericin B doesn't always clear it. It seems to work for some and not others. Regardless, the UK doesn't seem to have easy access to it recently, at least not for veterinary care. You can't keep using sodium benzoate constantly either. But to answer, Yes, the vet 'prescribed' it, but I had to buy the sodium benzoate powder myself. (And I decanted it into a tupperware so I just have my unlabelled tub of white powder...) The course is 28 days of sodi benz in the water, 1g/L 1g is hard to weigh on a kitchen scale, so I weighed 5g and made it up in 5L, which required a stew pot. Fortunately we make sodium benzoate solution at work, and the shelf life for that is 5 weeks. So I kept a couple of tubs of it in the fridge, though I have plenty of powder so it doesn't matter too much. 28 days is up the day that Yuki has his blood test so that's easy for me to remember.
|
|
|
Post by blueelephant on Feb 4, 2024 22:07:29 GMT
Thank you for this Ira. That is really helpful. I'm tempted to give it a go for Toby. He's really sleepy right now so something to even ease symptoms for a bit would be good. Are your whole flock getting the dose? We have done separate water for the boys before but the idea of that for a month is quite a task. Multiple trips to the kitchen tap for Barney each day 😂 The anti fungal didn't clear it at all for Toby, but he had a bad case. It was very easily identified in his poo sample. I hope the police don't come and raid your white powder...
|
|
|
Post by Ira on Feb 4, 2024 22:22:55 GMT
The whole flock's getting it, yeah. No one currently has an active infection going on. I did keep the labelled packet, at least
|
|