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Post by ariella on Feb 18, 2022 17:14:01 GMT
My uncle was a dairy farmer and a huge part of his job was rounding them up and taking them in for milking, then off out theyād go. Itās so heartbreaking how so many animals are treated as nothing more than a commodity but I think things are slowly beginning to change, especially as you donāt have to look hard to find vegan anything. I loved having my flock of chickens and all the lovely free range eggs but today I was not sorry that I decided not to get another flock in the summer when the last died. I used to be out in all weathers with them but boy have I aged in a decade and I wouldnāt want to be bungee-cord tying down the covers on the run today as we had done so many times in the past. Iām thankful we live in a farming community and we get our free range eggs from neighbours who have lovely chooks free-ranging. When you get used to lovely orange yolks from the fresh veg fed to hens, yellow ones just taste and look awful. I wonder if the coffee shops do vegan coffees Marianne Marlow? Maybe if they do, thatād be a better option for you.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 18, 2022 17:35:07 GMT
There were so many distressing scenes in this programme, one that really upset me was removing the calf from the mother almost straight after birth, with the mother calling after the calf to lick it and clean it up, the cow was so distressed. Here is the reason for that:-
Almost all calves are separated from cows within hours or days of birth on dairy farms.Ā This allows farmers to sell the milk that the calves would otherwise drink.
Isn't that so sad šŖ
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Post by ariella on Feb 18, 2022 18:41:26 GMT
There were so many distressing scenes in this programme, one that really upset me was removing the calf from the mother almost straight after birth, with the mother calling after the calf to lick it and clean it up, the cow was so distressed. Here is the reason for that:- Almost all calves are separated from cows within hours or days of birth on dairy farms. This allows farmers to sell the milk that the calves would otherwise drink. Isn't that so sad šŖ It really is disgusting. I suppose the dairy workers are just immune to it not to be moved by the mother calling for her calf. All her maternal hormones must have gone mental and she must have been utterly distressed. If ever there is a time for people to make humane choices, documentaries like this should help nudge more people to make better choices and demand better conditions for animals.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Feb 18, 2022 20:14:37 GMT
That makes me so sad There were so many distressing scenes in this programme, one that really upset me was removing the calf from the mother almost straight after birth, with the mother calling after the calf to lick it and clean it up, the cow was so distressed. Here is the reason for that:- Almost all calves are separated from cows within hours or days of birth on dairy farms.Ā This allows farmers to sell the milk that the calves would otherwise drink. Isn't that so sad šŖ
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Post by willowsmum on Feb 18, 2022 23:53:49 GMT
There were so many distressing scenes in this programme, one that really upset me was removing the calf from the mother almost straight after birth, with the mother calling after the calf to lick it and clean it up, the cow was so distressed. Here is the reason for that:- Almost all calves are separated from cows within hours or days of birth on dairy farms. This allows farmers to sell the milk that the calves would otherwise drink. Isn't that so sad šŖ It's so sad. 20 yrs ago we used to live in a rented cottage on a beef farm (very strange for a family of vegetarians but there you go). I don't know how old they were when it happened but there was a certain age when the calves were removed from their mothers (I'm not sure why, maybe so they could breed the mothers again?) and you could hear them calling to each other literally all night. As they were in barns it used to echo and amplify the cries. So sad
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Post by willowsmum on Feb 19, 2022 0:03:26 GMT
I have found that a lot of the non-dairy 'milks' curdle when added to hot drinks Marianne Marlow. I could just about get away with them if I let my drink cool before I added them but I drink a LOT of tea/coffee and it wasn't ideal so I reverted to real milk. My sister swears by Alpro My Cuppa as it can be added straight to hot drinks and tastes nice too. I tend to alternate between this and standard milk now.
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Post by criswell on Feb 19, 2022 0:25:22 GMT
Unfortunately with organic dairy farming the cows are still taken from their mothers almost straight away. I found this in a Guardian article "Helen Browning, dairy farmer and CEO of the organic trade body the Soil Association, separates her calves and cows within 24 hours, but then keeps them with a surrogate mother cow who has been retired or rested from the dairy herd. Under organic standards, calves are separated from their mothers after birth, but are always kept in groups and must be given cowās milk for their first 12 weeks. āCalves hate being weaned and cows hate their calves being taken away, whether after one day or five months. But it is better to do it before a bond has developed. In nature cows would live together as a family with cows and their grandchildren and great-grandchildren, so we are already interfering a lot with that family process,ā she says." This is a link to the article which does talk about farms trials letting the cows keep their calves with them. www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/29/mums-ask-when-cows-and-their-calves-separated-rise-ethical-milk-veganI still feel quite bad about drinking milk, especially about the male calves that are killed. I really would like to give it up but I can't eat nuts or soya and have quite a restricted diet and don't have many other sources of protein. Maybe one day I'll be able to do it.
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Post by willowsmum on Feb 19, 2022 0:46:12 GMT
I think even our small, individual changes can help. Sorry, off topic but criswell I used to buy an organic hemp protein powder (57g protein/100g) which I could sprinkle on/add to pretty much any food. I'm sorry I can't remember the brand (it was in a green bag) but there are quite a few brands out there now - just in case you need to boost your protein. Which reminds me, I've got a few bags of hemp seeds in the cupboard which are probably equally high in protein but I have no idea what to do with them - they're tough as old boots!! Maybe I should just blitz them into a powder or sprout them for the buds.
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Post by criswell on Feb 19, 2022 0:54:55 GMT
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
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George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Feb 19, 2022 11:05:07 GMT
Argh I feel doubly bad in that even organic cows have their calves taken away. But if I give up dairy altogether, wont they just cull the cows bred for giving milk?
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Post by jellybean on Feb 19, 2022 11:35:50 GMT
This whole farming thing just makes me sick....and sad.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
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George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Feb 19, 2022 11:56:50 GMT
Me too There must be another way to do all this that doesn't hurt the cows. This whole farming thing just makes me sick....and sad.
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Post by ariella on Feb 19, 2022 21:38:06 GMT
Iāve been a vegetarian since I was 15 and never been tempted to go vegan but knowing this is so very sad. My daughter and her boyfriend are vegetarian too and heād like to go vegan and she suspects heāll try it at some point, but he loves eggs and buying them only free range does help to relinquish guilt because we know theyāre pets first and foremost, live a wonderful life, receive vet treatment if needed and donāt get necked for getting old. My thoughts are that chickens will lay eggs so if they live a stress-free life - and you can really tell by the quality of the eggs - itās just a natural process they go through. Unfortunately we donāt all have chickens or know someone with backyard chickens.
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Post by criswell on Feb 19, 2022 23:18:28 GMT
It makes me sad too. Farming can be different and I think there are signs that it is becoming different but when so many people don't really care how animals are treated it's going to be slow to change.
I became a vegetarian when I was 17 but have never tried being vegan, and I do feel that I should have. I would love to have chickens but don't have a suitable garden - small, many neighbours and neighbourhood cats. I think chickens are lovely and it makes me very sad that so many of them have awful lives. I feel sad for all intensively farmed animals.
I know someone who is vegan who's parents keep chickens and she still doesn't eat their eggs. I know their chickens are very happy and well looked after so I don't suppose they mind having their eggs taken away.
In an ideal world it would be lovely if the calves could stay with their mother's until they are weaned but whenever I've met any calves that are being reared away from the mothers they have seemed very happy and playful and very eager for their bucket of milk so once they are have been separated I think they can still be happy. It's nice if they do get a retired dairy cow surrogate mother to live with though. The ones I met were living in little groups of calves and they were so lovely. It did make me sad knowing that someone was going to eat them when they grew up. It must be awful for a calf to be taken from it's mother and reared on it's own in an intensive farming stall.
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Post by Hezz on Feb 20, 2022 1:03:18 GMT
To a large degree the change will happen as a generational shift. The older generation of land holders often arenāt that interested in or canāt see how to change their practices. More holistic farming practices fit nicely into the whole climate change, carbon neutral ethos, and most who go down this track do embrace ethical, organic farming totally, not just little bits of it.
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