HELP .. Chicks in Peril!?

[drcodfish]

I am cross posting here and on the breeding journal page because I am really distresssed and hope you all can help me.

When I came hone from work this afternoon I cleaned out the nest box and inspecting the biggest chick (hatched 12/21) I found a little blood on his back and wing and it looks as if the hen has been pulling feathers out of his right wing.

She had blood around her beak and on the feathers below her beak and on here cere (see the pictures) .  This evening she's gone into the nest box several time and the little guy let out terrible squawks.  I opened the nest box and it appeared she on him again.

I've read about this feathe pulling business somewhere befor but dont recall the details. 

Please tell me what we need to do to right this situaton.  here is a link to my fiicker photos, I can't seem to upload photos on to this site.

www.flickr.com/photos/34372195@N02/

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

[Deleted]

Remove the hen and let the cock get on with the raising of the chicks.

[drcodfish]

Thanks so much for the advice Corie, the hen is in another cage now, hope Mr Greenburg gets the idea. Anything else I should do to hopefully help things go smoother? I'll check the chicks crops to see that they are getting fed.



Shoot, still can't get these pics to load.  I've go a cople pics here www.flickr.com/photos/34372195@N02/
which show the set up now.  Lotys of agitation, he's sqawking alot, guess that's to be expected(?) ...

Shoot, everything was going so well too..

[Deleted]

Your welcome, you need to take the hen to another room, so he can't see or hear her, so he can concentrate on the chicks.
At this time of development it's his duty to rear the chicks anyway, with maybe a little help from the hen.
So with four chicks he should do fine, just make sure you give him plenty of softfood, check crops and if need be top up.

[drcodfish]

Funny you mention that, my wife and I were just wondering if that was the drill, But of course, being a noobie, I didn't know for sure. Done and done, Fortunately we have recently trained him on to a 'salad' the idea for which I got here and he really goes after it. A mx of grated apple, carrot, sweet potato, romaine, corn and hard boiled egg. I'll keep a watch over them for the next copuple days. If I have to feed them what size syringe do I need to get?


You've been a great help and I'm feeling more confident now. This place is a life saver, in this case perhaps literally.

[Deleted]

I use a 14 gauge, there is a video on you tube that shows you how to do it.
Feather plucking is not life threatening but painful for the chicks and can cause abnormal feather growth.
Good luck and your welcome.

[sarah*glittergirl2212]

I had my little chicks plucked by the hen and they were all fine, try not to worry... if you have to feed them you can use a teaspoon or cut drinking straw if you have no syringe. They may well just take food from a teaspoon quite easily. Also you can put a millet spray in the nest box for the chicks to practise picking at. I'm sure they will be fine, just keep an eye on what is happening!

[BudgiesBuddy]

I posted in your other thread. I am glad that you found help in time

Just check these threads to be ready, just in case if the cock needs some help.

Hand Feeding Budgie Chicks

Lovie

[drcodfish]

This was a stressful day, but I am pleased to say it seems to be ending on a positive note.

My wife and I both work, and today we were both away from the house from 6 to 5. So for that 11 hour stretch we didn't really know what was happening with the chicks. Was Kermit stepping up and feeding his kids? were they suffering from cold? And with no experience we were not sure if all four of the chicks would still be with us when we finally got back home.

So the good news is:

1. It appears that he's been feeding the chicks. The biggest one didn't to have a full crop but seemed perhaps 50% full. I assume that if he had not been fed between 7:00 last night and 5 this evening there would have been little if any food in the crop....right?

2. Chick #2 was pretty full. He didn't eat much but got familiar with the food and the spoon I think.

3. Of the two smallest chicks, one as pretty full and one appeared to have had very little food. one of these ate pretty well, and the other ate very little. Bad me, I can't say which, I was intent on getting them back into the nest box as our house was cold.

Some details:

#1 is very frightened!  He fights and pecks and wants to escape more than anything. We attempted to feed him twice (and to calm him) and he did eat a little but mostly sqawks his defiance and wants to get away. I followed your advice on techniqe BB, it was clear that coming stright at his face was frightening to him.

#2 ate a little but seemed sleepy more than hungry.

The two little ones were much more calm, probably because my wife's hands were warm to them and possibly because they are younger (hatched on 12/26, and 12/28) and less aware? 

I used the tiny spoon, the syringe seemed not to be very appealing to any of them. The only baby formula I could find (two pet stores in our town) was Exact. I read almost everythng I could find on this forum last night that applied and I understand that there is some controversy over this product, but given our situation I felt that I had no choice other than to give it a try. Keep in mind, when I went shopping on my lunch hour I had no idea if the cock was feeding them.

A few details:
I kept the food at the correct temperature, which was the harest part, the food kept getting too cold (into the 90's) so I then had to mix more several times, even though I had it in a bowl of hot water.

I didn't force food on any of the chciks. When they ate, they did the little head bob thing, but none peeped, except #1 and he was mostly sqawking his defiance, or terror.

So, I don't feel like we were enormously successful, it certainly did not go as smoothly as the various videos I watched last night, but the key elements were there, and I suspect this is a little like snow boardng, pretty messy at first but you get better with practice.

All the help I have received from you has been very helpful, it went about as you had suggested it might Corie, and reading your thread on feeding BB (wich I did last night) helped me get through the rough patches and avoid some major mistakes.  I don't feel like we are out of the woods, but I do feel like we have passed a milesstone, thanks in great measure to all your help.

Sorry no pictures, this feeding business seems to be a three handed affair, and each of us only has two.

Tomorrow will definitely be better, both my wife and I will be teleworking so we will be home and can get a sense for how often Mr Greenburg is in the nest box with the chicks. He's been in there a lot this evening since we fed and tucked them in.

Billie Holliday seems forlorn in the back bedroom. I suppose I am assuming a lot here, but she did not eat much today.

[sarah*glittergirl2212]

I hope you have a good day. it will be a great relief if he is feeding all of the four chicks. Four should be perfectly manageable in theory so I have my fingers crossed for you

[BudgiesBuddy]

You're welcome

You did great for the first time

Just make sure that each chicks has full crop in the morning when you leave, as well as in the night when the lights go off.

[drcodfish]

Just a quick note:

The feeding this morning went much better than last night and I would say we had mixed success.

On the plus side, we were much more organized, I was able to maintain the temp of the baby formula better, and it was less messy and less stressful on the chicks as a result.   Also, as soon as we got them back in the nest box the male was in there right away with the chicks and he has been in and out all morning. He's also back to gorging on the mixed veg 'salad' I make for him (female too) each morning. (corn, romaine, broccolli, apple, sweet potato, and boiled egg).

That's the good news, the not so good news is that none of the four chicks gobbled as they all appear to do in the videos. I hope it is just the newness, getting used to the process, and that they pick this up better with a little more experience. We weighed each chick befor, and after feeding; not a whole lot of weight difference, which was no suprise given that they did not seem to eat much. They did not have full crops but didn't seem to want more, and I did not want to force them. All seemed to prefer eating from the spoon over the syringe at this time. I'll post with more detail later but wanted to let you know how we are doing.

Best, Paul

[drcodfish]

We fed them again this afternoon (about 5 hrs after first feeding).

Chick #1 is still the most scared and shys from the spoon, and resists being calmed or restrained, much biting and sqawking, he's strong!, not weak, stands on his own and will stand still if left alone.  This is the one the hen attacked.   He weighs 31 grams and gained one gram after feeding, but his crop did not look full or bulging.

Chick #2 weighed 23 grams this morning and weighed 27 grams after feedig this afternoon. He's the polar opposite of #1, very calm, though he did that squak that sounds like you are clearing your throat (grunting?) at first, then settled down and ate.

Chick 3 weighs 23 grams. we could not get her to eat this morning, very quiet, but not exactly listless. Not very excited about feeding this afternoon, we gave her a second chance this afternoon and she ate! Went from 23 grams in the morning to 26 g after afternoon feeding (us and the males efforts)

Chick #4 weighed 19g this am and 22g after afternoon feeding. She is a little chow hound and an easy feeder (well, relatively, I certainly would not do this for the fun of it).

we are worried that we are not making enough headway on the feeding, the chicks don't feed cvoracously a they do in the videos, is this becae they are all so young? though so far, no one has lost any weight.

Is there any merit to putting the hen back in with the male and the chicks for brief periods in hopes that she would do a better job of feedng the chicks (than us and the male) or should we consider her out of the picture until the chicks can feed themselves?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I would not say we are getting good at this, but we are cetainly getting better.

Again, thanks so much for all your help.

Best,

Paul and Sheila

[Hezz]

I can't help with any of your questions, Paul, but, for my money, if the chicks are not losing weight from one feed to the next or one day to the next, I think you are safe. They are eating enough for this to be obvious in the pre- and post- feeding weights. Do you know whether the cock is keeping up his end of the bargain? I would be guessing that he is feeding them, maybe not enough for them to survive without your help, but this would go a long way to explaining why the chicks aren't voraciously gobbling their formula as per the videos.

Keep up the good work.

[drcodfish]

Hello Hezz. Yes I am pretty sure that he's been doing his part, or at least trying.  We were gone for about 12 hours yesterday Wednesday) which was the first day that he was alone with them.   It was unavoidabe due to work commitments. Whe we got home they all had a little food in their crops, and I feel pretty confident that if he were doing nothing they would all have had no food showing. That night (last night) was our first hand feeding experience. It was not the greatest experience, but I feel since both we and the chicks were learning, it went acceptably well. I blogged it here .

I think we will feed them again this evening and then hit the hay.  We'll see what others have to say about the idea of giving her (the hen) a chance to help out with the feeding.  Though she is at the other end of the house, she is still very intent on getting back to the male and chicks.  When the bedroom door is open she will call to him, and of course he answers. 

Thanks for your help.