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Post by criswell on Apr 3, 2022 21:55:29 GMT
You earned your glass of wine. I'm glad one of the medications is finished now. I'm sorry Patch hasn't had such a good day today. I hope he's brighter tomorrow. You'll get a better idea of how he is feeling once both meds are finished. Randolph Carter was always very stressed when he had medication and he was a master at tucking his neck in. When he needed a six week course of antibiotics we had to switch to putting it in his water after 2 weeks as he was so stressed all the time.
I find it hard enough to give meds when I have my OH holding the budgie so you are doing a grand job giving Patch his medication by yourself.
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Post by Loz on Apr 3, 2022 22:31:44 GMT
Thanks criswellI cannot imagine six weeks of ABs. Even if administering is made easy somehow, the effect they have on budgies is hard to watch. I don't think I managed to get the Baytril into Patch tonight. He was more active and less sulky than usual after the dosing which makes me think both attempts missed. Bugger.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
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George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Apr 3, 2022 22:48:21 GMT
Don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing your best. Thanks criswellI cannot imagine six weeks of ABs. Even if administering is made easy somehow, the effect they have on budgies is hard to watch. I don't think I managed to get the Baytril into Patch tonight. He was more active and less sulky than usual after the dosing which makes me think both attempts missed. Bugger.
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Post by Loz on Apr 4, 2022 10:11:08 GMT
Patch made it difficult again this morning.
I feel guilty because I snuck up on him when his back was turned and captured him before he knew what was happening. He didn't make much fuss but he would not open his mouth, he was adamant about that. I used both syringes again and my feeling is I got a dose into him because he sulked for quite a while afterwards. Since then he's been quiet but he has had a couple of forays out and about, foraging and such. Five more doses to go!
Stop Press: Eeyore is hassling him but Patch is mostly ignoring it. It's odd because Patch won't let Mr Hibs get away with one-tenth of what Eeyore is permitted to do. He'll see Hibs off with very little ceremony.
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on Apr 4, 2022 17:53:39 GMT
When I first got Buddy he came down with a respiratory infection. I took him to the avian vet who diagnosed him and then gave him some medicine while in her office. He promptly spit it out on her hand! At least Patch is not spitting it out.
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Post by criswell on Apr 4, 2022 21:24:55 GMT
I think the first two or three days are the most important with antibiotics and the rest of the week is for insurance, so I don't think it will matter too much that Patch isn't getting all his antibiotics now. You've done a marvellous job getting as many doses in him as you have done and I'm sure he will get some of each of the remaining doses in him too.
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Post by Loz on Apr 4, 2022 21:43:24 GMT
I'll confess that I wobbled this evening and toyed with the idea of abandoning the rest of the antibiotics. Patch was not active today and it felt to me that the Baytril and/or the stress of administering it was having a bad effect on Patch's mood and health.
I persevered though. Part-finished courses of antibiotics do not sit right with me. Patch was not as resistant tonight but still wouldn't open his mouth. I think though that I got some medication into him.
I hope he has a better day tomorrow.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
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George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Apr 4, 2022 21:54:32 GMT
I also hope he has a better day tomorrow.
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Post by Hezz on Apr 5, 2022 0:49:37 GMT
Part finished courses of antibiotics are one of the biggest reasons bacteria, viruses and yeasts build up resistance to antibiotics. The time frames are put in place for a reason.
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Post by criswell on Apr 5, 2022 9:10:51 GMT
Recent research has shown that stopping a course of antibiotics part way through doesn't increase the likelihood of antibiotic resistance developing. Shorter courses of antibiotics are equally effective for most infections and less likely to cause antibiotic resistance because they reduce the exposure of bacteria to antibiotics, which reduces the speed by which resistant populations develop. The WHO have changed their prescribing guidelines in line with this, with a move toward 3 to 5 day courses rather than 7 to 10 days.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,853
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Apr 5, 2022 9:26:02 GMT
This is a bit of a "battle of the boffins" I really have no idea when it comes to this sort of thing.
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Post by Loz on Apr 5, 2022 9:59:37 GMT
My trust in "boffins" has, shall we say, taken a dent in recent years. I'm a traditionalist with regard to completing the course wrt antibiotics. NIH, WHO and Co have not inspired me with confidence recently so I will trust the earlier guidance for now.
Patch had his dose this morning. He was the very devil to catch for a while, it was good to see him flying so well but he soon tired and was fairly restrained in his resistance. Opening the beak remains a problem, alas.
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Post by Loz on Apr 5, 2022 10:12:35 GMT
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Post by criswell on Apr 5, 2022 12:39:13 GMT
How many doses left now? As a biologist, not completing the course has never made sense to me as a cause of antibiotic resistance. I hope you don't mind a bit of a science lesson... In any population of bacteria there may be an individual bacterium that is resistant to a particular antibiotic due to chance mutuations. If the population of bacteria is treated with that antibiotic the non resistant bacteria are killed, leaving the resistant one. This bacterium can then divide and form a new antibiotic resistant population. Using antibiotics doesn't cause individual bacteria to become resistant but it selects for the ones that are already resistant. Using antibiotics for longer increases the chances of selecting the resistant ones giving them an advantage, resulting in antibiotic resistant populations of bacteria. Of course, everyone should follow their doctor (or vets) advice, but hopefully doctors will take up the message of prescribing as short a course as possible, as the evidence is really stacking up to show that this is both effective treatment and reduces the chances of selecting more antibiotic resistant strains. I absolutely understand skepticism about things like this and I don't automatically believe everything I read/hear but in this case the science really does support the change in policy. I shall now take my scientist hat off and put my budgie hat back on
It's lovely to see Patch getting up to mischief with his buddies.
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Post by Loz on Apr 5, 2022 12:54:24 GMT
I'd love to take this discussion further, criswell, I find that kind of thing fascinating but won't do so in this thread 😊 (people who know me well on-line will wonder at my self-control here 🤣 ). The budgies are having a quietish day today, they may be disturbed by the sound of workmen fixing my porch roof. However, Patch has had some busy moments and I am delighted for that! As I type, Herman is serenading me from a perch in his cage and seems interested in my phone. Edit: three more doses!
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