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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 11:36:33 GMT
Not sure if I am looking for reasons to worry or not. Before I put Herman through the trauma of capturing and handling him for a closer look, can I just ask for some advice? Any ideas as to what the discolouration on Herman's beak might be? At this point I do not know whether it is a bit of muck he's picked up and not rubbed off yet ... or if it is something I should be concerned over. So I guess the question is, is anyone aware of a condition that can affect the beak in this way? I've not noticed anything amiss before today but that's not to say it's not been around for a few days whilst my attention has been on Perry and Sandy. Herman tends to keep himself to himself and is often on his own or with one or two other budgies on the mirror perch in the lobby. He could have escaped my notice, conceivably. Behaviourally, he seems fine, singing, preening, playing and everything. Edit: Thread title amended to include nails, to help those searching symptoms later on
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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 11:40:22 GMT
Research indicates that is it isn't a food stain, etc, it could be a bruise or it could indicate a liver condition. As ever, the advice is seek advice from an avian vet - as it there were any in my part of the World
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Jul 12, 2022 17:34:28 GMT
rozenda
Normal Violet
Posts: 200
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Post by rozenda on May 10, 2023 12:49:38 GMT
Aw bless him, it does look like a bruise but how would he have done it ? I agree with Lozhinge that it’s best to get it checked out. Would liver disease show up in his poo ?
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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 13:53:15 GMT
Well, it's not dirt, so it's either a bruise or a metabolic condition, Some detective work has revealed that a small group of budgies, which includes Herman, has at least one bird with watery poops in it. Logically, it is Herman.
Is administering milk thistle indicated?
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,776
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Post by Marianne Marlow on May 10, 2023 14:28:34 GMT
Usually would be a liver condition indicator, if it is a bruise. Obvs if you can get him to an avian vet then that would be good. I realise you don't have access to one though.
Yes, milk thistle. I get the 'natures answer' alcohol free one as Billy has a liver condition. His droppings are splats and he drinks a fair bit of water too. Also I use avipro avian in their water twice a week (get mine from amazon) both these things were recommended by an avian vet that I took Billy to at the Royal veterinary college.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,776
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Post by Marianne Marlow on May 10, 2023 14:29:27 GMT
Do I see small bits on his toenails too? another indicator I believe.
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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 14:51:45 GMT
He does have dark patches in his toenails which I do not recall him having before. I've got Herman booked with Anthony on Saturday.
Herman is mixing freely with the genpop. If I give him MT and avipro, I'll be giving it to everyone else. I'd have to keep him caged in order to restrict the treatments to just Herman. Or I have to give everyone the treatments, which I gather is not a good idea. How do I square the circle?
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
George, Daisy, Iris, Billy, Peter, Chipper, Dinku, Barney, Ayla and Rocky
Posts: 28,776
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Post by Marianne Marlow on May 10, 2023 14:54:21 GMT
I give all of mine milk thistle and avipro, not an issue, they are supplements and not medicine. Great that you have an appointment for him
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Post by tweetiepiesmom on May 10, 2023 14:54:50 GMT
A couple of months ago I saw a similar dark mark on the lower ridge of Buddy's beak. His poop was a bit watery. I gave him some Avi-pro and kept an eye on it. Apparently it was a bruise which grew out. He went in for his annual physical after that and the vet found no evidence of liver disease and I've not seen another dark spot. I've decided that it was a bruise and he may have hit his beak without my seeing it. Use your own judgement, watching him.
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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 15:00:20 GMT
A couple of months ago I saw a similar dark mark on the lower ridge of Buddy's beak. His poop was a bit watery. I gave him some Avi-pro and kept an eye on it. Apparently it was a bruise which grew out. He went in for his annual physical after that and the vet found no evidence of liver disease and I've not seen another dark spot. I've decided that it was a bruise and he may have hit his beak without my seeing it. Use your own judgement, watching him. This is a possibility for Herman and hope so much it's the case. He has been butting beaks with Mhoram a lot recently so that's one explanation. I'm trying to hope for the best while I prepare for the worst. Thank you for posting Buddy's experience, TPM.
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Post by Loz on May 10, 2023 15:01:23 GMT
I give all of mine milk thistle and avipro, not an issue, they are supplements and not medicine. Great that you have an appointment for him Thank you, Marianne 🙂
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Post by skysmum on May 10, 2023 19:48:37 GMT
Fingers crossed it’s just a bruise, the fact he has it on his nails is a little more unsettling but with milk thistle and catching things early liver problems can be at best reversed or at least maintained. They are an active bunch so he’s not sitting around to much 🙂
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Post by Hezz on May 11, 2023 0:12:53 GMT
Do I see small bits on his toenails too? another indicator I believe. Yes! Was about to ask this same question. Bruising from fatty liver disease can show up on bothe the claws and the beak. While milk thistle and Avipro are supplements, some supplements can interfere with meds so that’s something that should be discussed if any bird needs to go onto prescription meds.
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Post by lemonora on May 11, 2023 6:57:54 GMT
So sorry to hear about the bruises My Elsa has lipoma (2 fat tumors) due to a liver issue and I’ve been giving her ACV and milk thistle for years and she’s doing fine But this is the first time I hear about (avipro avian) Should I get it as well for Elsa?
Hope the vet visit goes well and wishing the best for you and your buds Please let us know
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Post by Loz on May 11, 2023 7:21:06 GMT
Thank you lemonora . I am sorry for Elsa's trouble but I'm glad she continues to live a great life with you. My budgets get regular ACV, I'll just add Avipro & MT into the weekly schedule. I used to use Avipro regularly, when Squeak was showing signs of illness, it will do her no harm to have it again I'm sure. At least, this is my plan unless the vet advises otherwise. I'll let more experienced folk provide opinions on your using Avipro for your flock.
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