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Post by criswell on Nov 27, 2023 13:19:30 GMT
I hope so loz. I'm just worried that he might harm someone before we get him under control. When Dexter and Aster were out of the cage I caught Rito and popped him in the big cage as he'd not eaten or drunk anything all morning. I let Dexter in when he asked and they got straight on with beak bashing. I let them have a few minutes alone and then let Aster in with them. Obviously Aster wanted to go over to them, but Rito wasn't happy about that and then they started chasing each other so I let Dexter out as he came over to the door. Rito and Aster settled down but Rito went straight over to Dexter on the side of the cage. I feel really mean about it but I've now got Aster in the small cage. Neither Dexer nor Rito have been to visit him and they are busy playing with each other. And this has made me really sad And I'm even less sure of what to do with the silly boys now.
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Post by Ira on Nov 27, 2023 13:32:10 GMT
Aster always seems to end up the loner in anything more than a pair. He spent most of his time with us sat by himself singing. I'm not even sure how much Yuki interacted with him when it was just the two of them on our trip to London.
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Post by Loz on Nov 27, 2023 13:42:20 GMT
It's a puzzle, Criswell. I don't have the observational data that you have and can only go by what you've posted and my interpretation of that.
Am I right in thinking that Dexter and Aster get on fine with no serious bust-ups? And that there is only trouble when Rito is involved? If that is the case, it seems to me that corrective action on your part is best directed at Rito, in terms of fairness as well as effectiveness (although fairness is a human concept, foreign to budgies!).
When one of my troublemakers has started going too far, I have acted quite ruthlessly to curb it, through the use of the squirter and/or of solitary confinement. Which you use will depend upon whether you can be hands-on or whether you will be absent. Both Squeak and Boba (and, incidentally, Chocobo) have received tough-love treatment from me, to prevent potential injury to innocent flockmates. It's made me feel sick to my stomach to do it but the alternatives are fair worse and the consequences of them will fall upon the birbs rather than on my feelings. Given the choice, I'll feel rotten rather than have one or more of my budgies feel worse.
Squeak is a little bit of a work in progress still but as I've said before, the sight of the squirter is enough to stop things before they properly get started. This spares both Squeak and my feelings, to a great extent.
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Post by criswell on Nov 27, 2023 14:26:34 GMT
Aster always seems to end up the loner in anything more than a pair. He spent most of his time with us sat by himself singing. I'm not even sure how much Yuki interacted with him when it was just the two of them on our trip to London. When Aster was upstairs with your flock he spent time on his own or with me. When he met Dexter they got on really nicely but he still liked to spend a bit of time on his own. Then Rito came downstairs and Aster wanted to be friends with both of them and he did a wonderful job playing with both. Then Rito and Dexter made friends and Aster got quite aggressive with Dexter. Then Rito started chasing Aster, and Aster chased Dexter and so on .....
Aster is a complicated little fellow. He's currently setttled in the small cage and has been preening and singing. He's had visits from Rtio and Dexter separately and now they are both sitting on top of his cage. It took about half an hour before they realised he was missing though. No, they're off again flying about like idiots.
I want all three of them to be happy so I just need to work out the best way to achieve that.
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Post by criswell on Nov 27, 2023 15:39:26 GMT
loz I'm working on a long answer to your question, which is helping me sort through what is going on, so thank you for asking. The short answer is that relations between Dexter and Aster are strained/frosty. They've had squabbles on top of the cage, and once Dexter and Rito made friends Aster was quite aggressive to Dexter, dive bombing him and knocking him off his perch. That only lasted for a couple of days but now Dexter tends to fly away when Aster approaches him. Dexter and Rito very much want to be together. Aster wants to be with Rito but Rito isn't so keen on the idea. When they are flying about Rito and Dexter fly together but tend to fly away from Aster when he tries to join them. When the three of them are sitting together outside the cage Rito chases Aster, Aster chases Dexter and Rito gets silly and jumps on either Dexter or Aster. When they are together inside the cage they are relatively well behaved until Rito chases Aster out of the cage or Aster chases them both out.
So my feeling at the moment is that Dexter and Rito get on the best and there is trouble when Aster is involved, although the trouble is usually started by Rito against Dexter.
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Post by Loz on Nov 27, 2023 16:05:52 GMT
Ah, thank you Criswell. I have a better grasp of the dynamic now.
A fourth budgie is needed (and fingers crossed it helps rather than multiples the problems!)
I don't see how the aggression can be trained out of either Aster or Rito in a short timeframe, it looks like it will be a long-haul job. It's possible Rito will calm down when he has matured a bit. I saw real ructions with Rito's sisters when they were younger (they behaved well with each other but abominably with the rest of the Flock) but they are both calmer now. Interestingly they don't get on with each other these days, preferring to spend time with other budgies.
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Oct 6, 2011 7:41:27 GMT
Marianne Marlow
Administrator
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Post by Marianne Marlow on Nov 27, 2023 16:14:14 GMT
When I had 3, it didn't work. I know for some people it does.
I had Monty, Snowy and Roswell. Snowy and Monty paired up almost immediately. Roswell was left out and jealous, he'd barge between the two of them and it started fights. I ended up getting a forth and he (Jerry) and Roswell hit it off immediately.
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Post by skysmum on Nov 27, 2023 17:02:18 GMT
It’s a tough one for sure. When I had a bigger flock I found I had to keep an even number, most of my squabbles were over girls, if I lost one of a pair the one left would cause havoc trying to move in on or break up another pair. I have to say I’ve been surprised at how my three have been getting in so well, up until now🥴 , Mabel is in breeding condition so I’m seeing a bit of tension between the Jasper and Wilbur with Jasper chasing Wilbur away from her. I’m starting to see cracks in the once happy three some, I did wonder how long it would last 🤦🏻♀️😂 I do sympathise with you criswell, it’s stressful, it’s all coming back to me now 😁
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Post by Ira on Nov 27, 2023 18:38:13 GMT
loz They've grown up and hit the age where the nest-bonds are no longer important. I think for me it would depend which 3. Indie-Gwen-Yuki works as long as the hormones stay down enough for Yuki to be more interested in Indie than Gwen. Pippin doesn't care, but if Indie is in a mix involving Pippin he will pick on Pippin. Pippin-Yuki-Gwen would likely be calm. A 4th might work, depending on who they befriend. I'm happy to take Aster back if you need, too.
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Post by criswell on Nov 27, 2023 22:40:47 GMT
skysmum sorry to hear that your trio isn't so harmonious now. I hope they settle down. Ira so much does depend on budgie personalities as you say. I think we were all surprised at how much more confident Aster became when he came to stay, even before he came downstairs to meet Dexter, and then how a dominant streak came out when Rito joined them. He's got quite a temper too and will really shout at the others or me when he has a mind too. I think if we do decide on a 4th budgie we'll keep them as two pairs rather than a four. We love Aster and we'd like him to stay with us but we do want him to be happy as possible which could mean him coming back to you. I let Aster out of the small cage after an hour and there has been no serious bullying apart from Dexter and Rito flying away when Aster tried to join them and Rito chasing Aster away when he got too close to Dexter. Currently all 3 are in the cage and Dexter and Aster just had a really nice chat until Rito noticed and butted in. Then Aster and Rito shared some spinach. During the afternoon I distracted one of them or shut one in or out of the cage to let the other 2 have some time together, and they've all had some nice chats with each other. When on his own Aster has seemed quite happy, playing with toys and singing. I've carefully policed them when they've been on top of the cage together, and given Rito a couple of squirts when he started to hassle Aster.
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Post by criswell on Nov 29, 2023 13:16:58 GMT
Three days seems to be Rito's limit for good behaviour. He tipped Dexter on to his back on top of the cage this morning so he's had a time out in prison. The incident occurred a few moments after Dexter came over to sit with me so it seems like a jealousy thing. Aster was up on the curtains. It seems that everything now belongs to Rito, Dexter included!
I'll have the other piano 6 back in play by the end of the week so that'll give me better options for separating anyone who wants or needs to be separated.
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Post by criswell on Nov 29, 2023 14:22:04 GMT
Rito has now been expelled from the lounge. I let him out of the small cage after about an hour and he got straight back to chasing Aster and playing with Dexter and in less than half an hour he had Dexter on his back again, standing on him with both feet and I had to physically move him off Dexter. Dexter's fine and straight away wanted to play with Rito again. Rito is now in the small cage in my teaching room.
Aster and Dexter have had a good long chat, probably about Rito!
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Post by Loz on Nov 29, 2023 14:25:50 GMT
Criswell, do you get the impression that Dexter is upset with how Rito treats him? Does he enjoy it? I'm just curious why Dexter is happy to go back to playing with Rito after a tussle.
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Post by criswell on Nov 29, 2023 14:35:49 GMT
loz He's upset by it when it's going on but forgives him quickly. He was squealing and struggling to get away from Rito. It wasn't nice to see and I'm quite shaken up about it. But Dexter is besotted with the little rascal. Aster likes him too and Rito has treated him worse than Dexter.
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Post by Loz on Nov 29, 2023 15:12:24 GMT
Dexter and Aster need to stand up for themselves!
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